Any tips on nailing a buttplate on ?

[mikeyfirelock]

Been building rifles off and in since 1972, but never had occasion to nail a buttplate on.   I’m building a trade gun for a friend and am getting to the point where I’ll be nailing the buttplate on, and I’m wondering if there any tips or tricks I should know about.   Do I need to put square holes in the buttplate....prepare the nails in any way....do anything special in the way of predrilling the holes ? 
I’d hate to get  this far and get this apparently simple step done badly.

[M. E. Pering]

I have never nailed on a butt plate, but know that you should never use a square peg in a square hole for this sort of thing.  Your holes should be round.  This is due to how the wood is compressed around a square peg.  This rule holds for wood, but I can't be certain whether or not it holds for metal into wood, but I see no good reason it shouldn't. 

I have observed construction of old barns in my area 30 years ago or so, and did notice that they often used More like hex wooden pegs into round holes.  The barn that I grew up with/in was build in 1839, totally of wood, except for the stone and mortar foundation.  This barn had this type of pegs holding it together, and my father, being worried that the pegs might be loose, tried to pound a few in.  They would not budge.  This barn had seen 150 years, in an area which saw high winds at times, temperature extremes, and lots of weather.  It was solid as when it was first built, and probably stronger since it was originally made of native lumber, which gets very much harder in that area over time.

Matt

[redheart]

Mikey,
I'm no expert but I did it this way and it worked.
Holes in buttplate need to be square and sized so the nails go as far in as you need.
Tack buttplate in place and drill a small hole full depth and a larger hole half way in with stopper on bit in to allow for taper of nail.
Make darn sure holes don't come too close to the outside of the stock.
Practice first on a piece of end grain hardwood to make sure the holes you will drill will not be too loose or tight enough to split the wood.
Remember, not all Northwest guns had nailed on buttplates, many were screwed on.

[BOB HILL]

Google Mike Brooks fowling guns there is a tutorial on a trade gun with the buttplate nailed on. This may be of help. I’m sure Mike will chime in when he sees your post. He’s our trade gun pro.
Bob

[Mike Brooks]

I make my nails square and tapered. 3/32" at the big end. I drill a 5/64" hole in the buttplate and drive the nail in until it won't go any farther or it's near flush, what ever comes first. File flush when you get them all in.

Here's that tutorial that was mentioned above.

http://www.fowlingguns.com/carolinatutorial5.html

[Davemuzz]

Ghee Mike......that tutorial makes it look easy. Very nice!!

[mikeyfirelock]

Aha!  (He said as the full weight of the collective knowledge hit him squarely between the eyes!!!)
I knew I’d be rewarded with good advice here.   Ask and ye shall be answered.   
Many thanks, guys.

[Mike Brooks]

It's important that the nails look square after you file them off flush. That's how all the old originals look that I have seen.

[Hungry Horse]

It’s probably not HC but I use horseshoe nails with the heads cut off and filed flat. They are a little more rectangular than square. They are very soft and easy to work with. I use a small die sinkers chisel ground to punch a hole the size and shape of the nail shank, after a round hole is bored in the buttplates. I think I used the instructions in Prior Mt. Bill Newton’s tradegun book.
 It would be a good idea to hunt up one of these books, because it shows a lot of ways to easily make all the furniture for several tradeguns.

  Hungry Horse

[redheart]

The nails and buttplate I used came with the Northstar kit I had which appears to mimic a later (circa 1838 Barnett). The square nails were rectangular and considerably larger than the early style that Mike uses.  I may not have been able to drive them in without pre drilling holes in the wood. The brass buttplate was almost twice as thick and pre bent and so squaring up the holes a little with a Swiss file kept me from having to use too much force. The pics. of this  original Barnett show this same thicker buttplate and larger rectangular nails with the nail heads being left proud and rounded smooth. I guess my kit was pretty much correct for a later gun. I love the way Mike does it though.

[BJH]

When I built my first type G trade gun, I made and fitted the but plate in stages. I started by shaping and inletting the return. Then I annealed the brass. In the location where the first nail is located in the return, I drilled the plate and ran in a #2 screw. A bit smaller than the nail would be. I bent and formed the but piece installing it with the screws in the rest of the nail locations as I went. Every thing went fine. Then I replaced each screw with a nail. It was a confidence builder. I just nail them on now and save a step. It’s a good belt and suspenders approach for a first time. BJH

[G_T]

I wonder if a technique similar to that used to set gravers (rectangular in cross section generally, and tapered at the back) into handles might have been used. Initial pilot hole is drilled where you want it. Then the graver tang is heated enough that it can smoke wood. It is pushed into the wood but not all the way down, then withdrawn. When cooled, it is run in all the way. The heated tang makes a hole which fits pretty precisely if the temperature is not too hot. The final seating makes it tight. I've also used the same technique to set file tangs into handles.

Gerald

[redheart]

I wonder if a technique similar to that used to set gravers (rectangular in cross section generally, and tapered at the back) into handles might have been used. Initial pilot hole is drilled where you want it. Then the graver tang is heated enough that it can smoke wood. It is pushed into the wood but not all the way down, then withdrawn. When cooled, it is run in all the way. The heated tang makes a hole which fits pretty precisely if the temperature is not too hot. The final seating makes it tight. I've also used the same technique to set file tangs into handles.

Gerald

I love it.
Great theory!