Author Topic: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.  (Read 1181 times)

Offline Wyoduster

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Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« on: March 18, 2019, 01:56:51 AM »
Looks like I won't have my Turkey Flintlock done in time for Spring Gobbler season... So My question ...Would it hurt to try shooting shot in my 58 cal. Hawken? Its a C weight swamped Rice barrel. And what would you recommend powder charge and shot??

Offline frenchymanny

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 02:41:18 AM »
I will be watching this one! Why not test on paper? You won't hurt the gun, correct?.

Offline hortonstn

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 02:42:37 AM »
I'd call Rice ?

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 03:13:39 AM »
If your .58 is rifled I wouldn't count on getting much of a pattern past the muzzle.
Mark

Offline Semisane

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 03:56:02 AM »
Can I?  Sure. You won't harm the barrel. But the odds of getting a usable pattern beyond twenty feet are not good. Shallow rifling and slow twist increase the chance of success, but the odds are still not good. 

Try 70 grains of powder. Push a dry patch down on top of the powder and tamp it down a bit. Then push a well lubed oversize patch about an inch and a half deep into the muzzle with the thin end of your ramrod (or a thin dowel or twig) to form a pocket. Fill the pocket with 70 grain volume of shot and fold over any excess patch material. Then put another folded up patch on top of that and ram the entire shot package down. If that doesn't give you a usable pattern try the same thing, except after loading the 70 grains of powder re-set the measure to 90 grains for the shot charge. Sometimes equal volume of powder and shot works well. Sometimes more shot than powder works better. Let us know how well it worked for you.

NOTE: If you can't get a good pocked for the shot with your patch material, cut strips about 1/2"wide and 4" long. Use two strips to form a "+" at the muzzle and push them down a bit to form the pocket.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 04:06:38 AM by Semisane »
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 06:05:56 AM »
I tried shot in my .58 S. Hawken back in the 70's for grouse. To about 20 yards, it was deadly on flying birds.
IIRC - I used 75gr. 2F, a thick base wad cut from donna-conna, lubed with bear grease, 1 1/8oz. 7 1/2's and a thin cardboard disk overshot.
The shot did not lead the tube, I assume due to the lubing that happened when I shoved the 1/2" thick wad down.





 
Daryl

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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 04:37:15 PM »
Why don't you use a ball and take head shots?
Pete

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2019, 04:58:22 PM »
yup, I would use a ball and take head shots. that rifled bbl. is going to scatter the shot pretty fast and the tighter you pack it the wider it will scatter at any distance. all you can do is try it and see what the pattern looks like at different distances.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2019, 05:53:39 PM »
Why don't you use a ball and take head shots?

Not legal in my state. And is the one current game law I'd yet like to see changed--allowing single-ball loadings for the big birds. 
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 06:39:25 PM »
I wonder what their thinking is on that law? Don't want a bullet/ball flying through the air? Does anybody shoot turkeys out of trees?
Pete

Offline Semisane

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 08:48:36 PM »
Also in Louisiana - shotgun only for turkeys.

I don't know the thinking for sure. But I suspect it has to do with conservation of the population. Unless you have an awful lot of birds it would be easy for rifle hunters to do severe damage to the population. I can get a Tom within shotgun range in about one hunt out of five. But so long as a bird is within 150 yards or so I could kill one on just about every hunt with a head shot from my .22 Hornet. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 09:01:30 PM by Semisane »
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 09:24:11 PM »
That makes sense.
Pete

Offline hanshi

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 10:41:39 PM »
Why don't you use a ball and take head shots?

Not legal in my state. And is the one current game law I'd yet like to see changed--allowing single-ball loadings for the big birds.



I agree with Wade.  ML rifles were allowed for turkey in every state I've lived in except for Maine.  And Maine seems to be swarming with turkeys. 

You also might test shot in a thin paper cartridge; just a thought.
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Offline Sharpsman

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 11:27:24 PM »
Lots of turkey where I reside....but can't hunt 'em!!
"There ain't no freedom...without gunpowder!"

Offline Wyoduster

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2019, 11:46:30 PM »
Thanks for the info.. I do have two old smoothbores I'll try them. Its also illegal to hunt with single projectile in Spring Gobbler Season here in Pa. otherwise I'd be using one of my 32's

Offline Daryl

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 03:23:11 AM »
Why don't you use a ball and take head shots?

That was normal. Taylor was with me once as we walked up a trail. There was a grouse or 2 up ahead of us, so I leveled off (for a head shot) on the closest one. BOOM
140gr. 2F and Bear or Marmot oil patched .575"  285gr. RB, .022" brushed denim patch. We saw a bird or two fly up through the smoke. Figured I'd missed
so up the trail we went.  Got to the spot and noticed little bits of grouse in a willow bush beside the road - feathers and little specks/chunks of meat and entrails.
There hanging on a branch was part of the leg with the foot attached, connected to a twig by a tendon.  After that, I tried shot.
You asked.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:45:30 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 04:38:46 AM »
Add Oklahoma to the "shot only" for turkey hunting states.

Mike

Online Bbell

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 08:21:45 AM »
Oregon requires shot only as well. I actually emailed ODFW a handful of years back and they responded that rifles weren't allowed due to safety concerns. They stated that they looked into it but said that many of the states that allowed rifles had more instances of accidents than shotgun only states. With decoys being so realistic there is a good chance someones going to shoot at one from 200yds or so and not see the hunter tucked in the brush. In western Oregon I can see that as a valid reason due to where most of the turkeys hang out. Still wish they allowed it though.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 09:46:58 AM »
Here, we are allowed shotguns and rimfires for turkey. I figure a flintlock is a rim fire.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 08:43:51 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 04:33:36 PM »
Why don't you use a ball and take head shots?

That was normal. Taylor was with me once as we walked up a trail. There was a grouse or 2 up ahead of us, so I leveled off (for a head shot) on the closest one. BOOM
140gr. 2F and Bear or Marmot oil patched .575"  285gr. RB, .022" brushed denim patch. We saw a bird or two fly up through the smoke. Figured I'd missed
so up the trail we went.  Got to the spot and noticed little bits of grouse in a willow bush beside the road - feathers and little specks/chunks of meat and entrails.
There hanging on a branch was part of the leg with the foot attached, connected to a twig by a tendon.  After that, I tried shot.
You asked.

 You're supposed to hit the head.  ;)
Pete

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 08:27:03 PM »
My old 1861 Springfield .58 threw a pretty good shot pattern, but the rifling was very shallow and slow.  And only three grooves.  Was fun to shoot though!
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2019, 08:44:12 PM »
Why don't you use a ball and take head shots?

That was normal. Taylor was with me once as we walked up a trail. There was a grouse or 2 up ahead of us, so I leveled off (for a head shot) on the closest one. BOOM
140gr. 2F and Bear or Marmot oil patched .575"  285gr. RB, .022" brushed denim patch. We saw a bird or two fly up through the smoke. Figured I'd missed
so up the trail we went.  Got to the spot and noticed little bits of grouse in a willow bush beside the road - feathers and little specks/chunks of meat and entrails.
There hanging on a branch was part of the leg with the foot attached, connected to a twig by a tendon.  After that, I tried shot.
You asked.

 You're supposed to hit the head.  ;)

IT happens.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Daryl

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 08:46:09 PM »
My old 1861 Springfield .58 threw a pretty good shot pattern, but the rifling was very shallow and slow.  And only three grooves.  Was fun to shoot though!

The original Springfields, et'al had progressive depth rifling that was .008" deeper in the breech, than at the muzzle, same as all hollow-based bullet firing rifles around the world.
Daryl

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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2019, 05:20:28 PM »
The mechanisms for looking at the inside of a barrel were few and far between back in 1960-62.
Never knew that about the progressively deeper rifling in the old Springfields.  That makes today a success - I have learned something new today - thanks, Mr. Daryl!
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Can I? shoot in 58 cal.
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2019, 12:24:42 AM »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V