Mold size

[Bill Raby]

I need to get a ball mold made pretty soon. It will be one that is large enough that shrinkage could be a bit of an issue so I figured I better check in here before ordering the wrong one. Barrel measures .998 across the grooves and .985 across the lands. I figure a ball size of about .970 to .975 would be about right. Assuming the ball would shrink by about .5% to .75% as it cools. So if I get a mold that measures .980 it should get me to the correct size. Does this sound about right or am I making a mistake somewhere in here?

[smylee grouch]

Bill, are you figuring those shrinking rates from past experience and on smaller sized balls? Just curious.

[Bill Raby]

Looking to get the mold made by http://www.ballmoulds.com/  Website says to use Lee mold handles. Will those handles really work on a mold this big?

[Bill Raby]

Bill, are you figuring those shrinking rates from past experience and on smaller sized balls? Just curious.

Not really. That is just what I have always heard to use for shrinkage rates on lead. I have not cast any balls or bullets in about 20 years. They are cheap enough that I just buy them. But it looks like casting my own is going to be the only option for this size. Slowly gathering up parts for the next gun and just realized that I will need a mold. It will be a few months before I get started so there is no rush.

[smylee grouch]

I was just curious as I will be doing the same thing for a 66 cal in about a year or so.

[Daryl]

I need to get a ball mold made pretty soon. It will be one that is large enough that shrinkage could be a bit of an issue so I figured I better check in here before ordering the wrong one. Barrel measures .998 across the grooves and .985 across the lands. I figure a ball size of about .970 to .975 would be about right. Assuming the ball would shrink by about .5% to .75% as it cools. So if I get a mold that measures .980 it should get me to the correct size. Does this sound about right or am I making a mistake somewhere in here?

Bill, up to the .62's we usually get moulds that are listed as being .005" smaller than the bore side. Oft times, they cast at what the mould says it is, sometimes a bit larger, 7 only the Taner moulds casting smaller than size ordered - ie; due to shrinkage.  My .677" (15 bore) mould casts .675", a whole .003" undersize in pure lead and .002" smaller harder  (WW) alloy. I can live with that -
I think you are concerned about something that really makes no difference.

 .985" bore, between 4 and 5 bore. due to a very tight load as we use in smaller bores, requiring movement of lead and due to the amount of lead that will bear in this size bore, I would order a Tanner mould in .972" or .973".  That would allow me to use a very thick patch (.030" or thicker -12 to 14oz denim), which holds enough lubricant to work in this huge bore.  A bore that size will be shooting quite heavy loads (in comparison to smaller bores) and thus will require more lube to keep the fouling soft.

What a beast!  Wear a PAST shoulder protector.  .985" is the size of many of the so-called 4 bores of the day. Yes it is smaller, but that's the way things were. What would "they" call it, a 4 1/2 bore?

The last 4 bore W.W.Greener shot with his recoil measuring machine that went up to 200pounds, broke the machine, with a mere 12 (327.6grs.) dram load, not the 16 (1 oz powder)) dram load considered to be maximum.    detached retinas' are a real problem.

[Daryl]

Looking to get the mold made by http://www.ballmoulds.com/  Website says to use Lee mold handles. Will those handles really work on a mold this big?

I use mostly RCBS handles on my Tanner moulds - I have had to file the thickness of the tines, now and then. I think the Lee (6-cavity) handles will be great. They have long tines as well.

[David R. Pennington]

What type carriage will this cannon be mounted on?

[Metalshaper]

if I'm not mistaken?? Jeff Tanner passed away a lil while back.. May wanna make sure someone has taken up the business before ordering?

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[Bill Raby]

if I'm not mistaken?? Jeff Tanner passed away a lil while back.. May wanna make sure someone has taken up the business before ordering?

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Website is still up and it has been updated fairly recently.

[Metalshaper]

[/quote]

Website is still up and it has been updated fairly recently.
[/quote]

Just wanted people to know Jeff would not be at the helm..

M/J

[Bill Raby]

I need to get a ball mold made pretty soon. It will be one that is large enough that shrinkage could be a bit of an issue so I figured I better check in here before ordering the wrong one. Barrel measures .998 across the grooves and .985 across the lands. I figure a ball size of about .970 to .975 would be about right. Assuming the ball would shrink by about .5% to .75% as it cools. So if I get a mold that measures .980 it should get me to the correct size. Does this sound about right or am I making a mistake somewhere in here?

Bill, up to the .62's we usually get moulds that are listed as being .005" smaller than the bore side. Oft times, they cast at what the mould says it is, sometimes a bit larger, 7 only the Taner moulds casting smaller than size ordered - ie; due to shrinkage.  My .677" (15 bore) mould casts .675", a whole .003" undersize in pure lead and .002" smaller harder  (WW) alloy. I can live with that -
I think you are concerned about something that really makes no difference.

 .985" bore, between 4 and 5 bore. due to a very tight load as we use in smaller bores, requiring movement of lead and due to the amount of lead that will bear in this size bore, I would order a Tanner mould in .972" or .973".  That would allow me to use a very thick patch (.030" or thicker -12 to 14oz denim), which holds enough lubricant to work in this huge bore.  A bore that size will be shooting quite heavy loads (in comparison to smaller bores) and thus will require more lube to keep the fouling soft.

What a beast!  Wear a PAST shoulder protector.  .985" is the size of many of the so-called 4 bores of the day. Yes it is smaller, but that's the way things were. What would "they" call it, a 4 1/2 bore?

The last 4 bore W.W.Greener shot with his recoil measuring machine that went up to 200pounds, broke the machine, with a mere 12 (327.6grs.) dram load, not the 16 (1 oz powder)) dram load considered to be maximum.    detached retinas' are a real problem.

Guess I did not think of it needing a thicker patch than normal.

Very few of the 4 bores were actually 1.052 bore size. Most were .930 to .970 bore. When they started making 4 bore cartridge guns the size pretty much went to a standard .930 bore. But there was some variation between manufacturers. At .985 the barrel I have is actually a bit larger than most of them were. But not by much. 12, 14, and 16 drams was the standard loads available in cartridges, but in muzzleloaders the charge often went up to 550 grains.

I figure the recoil on this will get up somewhere around 300 pounds. This is based on historical descriptions. No idea how they figured out velocity 150 years or ago or how accurate they were with it. So I might be way off. There is no doubt that recoil be tremendous. I don't have any trouble taking 20 or so shots with modern rifle with over 100 pounds recoil, but never tried anything with more than that. This would be a gun that only comes out a few times a year and fired with reduced loads. I would have to try a 550 grain load at least, or maybe twice.

Problem is that I read too many old books when I was a kid. I have wanted an old time elephant gun since I was a kid. I am not likely to ever hunt with it. This thing is going to be way too heavy to carry around all day. Barrel alone is over 12 pounds.

[Daryl]

Sounds like you are on track - however.
You are likely aware of Francis Seylous, famed African hunter pre WW1.  He used a 4 bore Dutch smoothbore, cut to about 26" or 28" loaded by his little 'loader' with 2 hands full of powder and patched round ball.  He also switched to SxS rifles with nitro express ctgs. namely a .600.
Before WW1, he wrote he's wished he'd never shot the 4 bore as it made him flinch so badly, that he turned in to a not very good shot and could never get over the flinch.
He was killed in Dutch East Africa (I think it was) during the war, fighting against German troops in Africa. We never hear about that part of the war.

[Daryl]

Just remembered you noted a smoothbore. If using a patch, you'll want about .020" smaller ball than the bore, maybe up to .040" smaller then the bore. That will allow a decent patch.

As a 5 bore ball is .977" at 1,400gr. in pure lead and a 6 bore of .919" at 1,166gr., you might be looking at about .945" to .950"and 1,290 to 1,300gr. in pure lead.

550gr. powder is 20 drams.
The actually used 'Ballistic" pendulums for figuring velocity - back into the late 1700's, at least.