Need help identifying H.E. Leman rifle - pics attached

[jteter]

This rifle has been in my friend's family for a few generations and he is looking to see if anyone knows much about it. He did have a relative named Henry Washington Harter who fought in the civil war in the South Carolina 3rd Calvary under Col. Charles Colcock in Company F, "St. Peter's Guard." He does not know if this rifle was his or used by him though. Please feel free to give any insight you may have on the rifle - the lock has "H.E. Leman, Lancaster PA' on it - it does appear to be a Leman rifle to me. Looks to be about a 36 Cal. barrel that is 43 and 1/4'' long. Barrel is pinned.

[Mike Brooks]

Nope, not a Leman. It was built in KY or TN. The guys here will probably tell you exactly who built it.

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  ... NOT LEMAN made,... East Tennessee made, most likely Unicoi County, using a Leman cap-lock,... has a "Holston Valley" style cheek-rest,.. Samuel Glover built similar style rifles,... look closely in front of rear sight for any initials or signature,.. what is barrel and overall length,... ... nice old rifle, in great shape,... regards,... Cades Cove Fiddler,.... 

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  ... Another comment,...most likely this rifle wasn't used in the Civil War,... however,.. would be interesting to know what the seven notches carved into the bottom of the wrist, at the rear trigger-guard extension were for,... !!!... CCF

[jteter]

Thanks guys - will still gladly listen out for any further info - will check barrel for signature or initials but it is heavily browned at this point.

[wormey]

Listen to Fiddler, he knows.  This is a classic Tennessee style rifle and the owner is fortunate to have it.  Could have been used by some "Home Guard" or such, but has no military utility.  Fine, fine rifle though. Wormey

[Dennis Glazener]

Thanks guys - will still gladly listen out for any further info - will check barrel for signature or initials but it is heavily browned at this point.

Please don't clean it to see any initials etc I agree with CCF its East TN.
Dennis

[E.vonAschwege]

however,.. would be interesting to know what the seven notches carved into the bottom of the wrist, at the rear trigger-guard extension were for,... !!!... CCF

Number of squirrels that met a fast demise one Sunday afternoon....

Yes definitely east Tennessee, great gun! 

[Mike Brooks]

however,.. would be interesting to know what the seven notches carved into the bottom of the wrist, at the rear trigger-guard extension were for,... !!!... CCF

Number of squirrels that met a fast demise one Sunday afternoon....

Yes definitely east Tennessee, great gun!

Naw, It's a tally of !@*%&@ yankees!

[wildcatter]

Awesome TN rifle! Thanks for posting, love seeing them!  SC 3rd was an interesting crew, all low country men. Interesting that they surrendered with a Tennessee regimen, maybe he got the rifle then?


Matt

[JamesT]

Very nice. Thanks for posting these photos. Dandy rifle

[crankshaft]

 Lower thimble,   unusual?     

[Dennis Glazener]

 Lower thimble,   unusual?     

Not particularly, have seen that type on several east TN rifles.
Dennis

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

..... a close-up  of the rear thimble/entry pipe on a rifle in our "virtual library" signed " S*G", and believed to be by Samuel Glover,... He and the Gross family were known to use this feature,...

[jteter]

Yeah that entry  thimble is very similar

[Hungry Horse]

 I recall reading a recollection of one of the heated Civil War battles, where Union forces had a bunch of Southern sharp shooters cornered. The Union troops were amazed at how far those rebs could shoot, and hit,  with a squirrel rifle. They said the little round balls were buzzing around them like bees. So, I don’t doubt that this rifle might have seen action.

 Hungry Horse

[Caprock]

Neophyte here.  Just wondering if one of the Beans didn't have something to do with this rifle?

[jteter]

Hey Cave Coves Fiddler - check out this Jonathan Gross rifle on Contemporary Makers at https://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2012/10/jonathan-gross.html   

Tell me that rifle don't look way like this one. Appreciate your help man!

[crankshaft]

 Lower thimble,   unusual?     

Not particularly, have seen that type on several east TN rifles.
Dennis

Appears to be a lot of extra work, on a  rather plain rifle ?  ?

[Skirmisher]

In the collection of the Illinois Military Museum there is a fine Tennessee mountain rifle left on the field at Pea Ridge. Tennessee collected and then issued these civilian rifles for use by marksmen, and the ammo used were picket bullets, not round ball.  Picket balls have also been recovered from the Pea Ridge battlefield.

[JamesT]

Skirmisher,
 Curious as to what you mean by a picket bullet? Something like a Minie or different?
James

[Hlbly]

With a 1 in 48 twist there is no way I can imagine those rifles shooting anything but a round ball with any accuracy at all.

[Longknife]

Skirmisher,
 Curious as to what you mean by a picket bullet? Something like a Minie or different?
James

James , The picket bullet was invented about 1835. Picture a round ball with a dunce cap. It required a special bullet starter and ram rod to center the picket in the bore. If loaded correctly the picket was far superior in accuracy, range and killing power to the round ball.,,,,,Ed     

[JamesT]

Ah ok. Thank you for the explanation sir. Interesting

[bama]

I think that this rifle may have been made by a member the the GROSS family. I own the Alfred Gross rifle mentioned earlier in this post and after looking at it and the pictures of this rifle there are too many similarities to cause me to think other wise.

The entry thimble is of the same construction and is installed with the same method. Look at the pin holding the rear thimble and then the pin for the barrel lug on my rifle and then on this rifle. They are the same.






The location of the trigger guard screws and the shape of the guard are very similar.




The tang is very similar.




The but plate return is similar in length.

Curvature of the butt plate is similar.

 

The rear sight is similar




The biggest difference is the cheek piece. This could have been a customer specification or just of those days when you want to do something a little different.