A question for the gun builders

[Nordnecker]

How many of you have built the same gun more than once? I imagine that some of the more prolific builders have built the same gun many times. Maybe you sold a gun and wanted another just like it. Maybe you wanted to improve something from a previous gun. Do you professional's have a "stock" gun that you make and sell over and over?
Just curious.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I've built the same style of gun such as a mid-18th century English fowler repeatedly but none were exactly the same. Muskets I build often are the same model or pattern. All others differ.  I rarely do commissions unless it is for something I am really interested in building.  Mostly I build what I want and sell it.

dave   

[Dennis Glazener]

Yep, afraid so. I build rifles in the style that my NC Gillespie family made. I have two different patterns that I use. One is a copy of my early Mathew Gillespie and one is a rifle made by his son Harvey which is about 30 years later. I make them for two reasons,  I like them, plain functional guns and second I have a huge customer base of Gillespie descendants that can not find or can not afford an original rifle like their GGG Grandfather made or used.

Ever once in awhile I make a fowler, Kibler kit or a VA Flint to break the monotony.
Dennis


 

[Lzymtlsmth]

Yes,
Early Lancaster’s a favorite of mine.

[David Rase]

So many guns....so little time!  I love the challenge of each and every new project.  That said, I can't remember ever building the same gun twice.  My interests very as time goes by so building from different schools and regional areas keeps things interesting.  I am currently working on a commission but prefer to build what I want, then when a client and I come to an agreement on a price, I sell the gun and move onto my next gun on my list.  It is easier to meet deadlines and expectations when you are working for yourself. 
David

[Sidelock]

The Tenn. or Southern Mtn. style by far for me, very popular in my area with customers. I have built these 3:1 over any other style.  The stock architecture for these are similar but, no two are exactly the same,  I try to make each one unique in some way.  The guys who want these for deer hunting like them in a 38" barrel and with forged plate and guard - they come in well under 7 lbs. in . 50. 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm approaching something like 30 Carolina trade guns. I've built nearly ONE MILLION English fowling guns, or so it seems, probably closer to 75 but none off the same exact pattern. Heck, I really don't remember what I've built anymore....

[t.caster]

I've been doing this awhile too, so repetition is inevitable. I've done a number of Dickert's and J.P. Beck's and Bucks County and Jaegers and Fowlers. I've covered almost all of the Pa. schools at least once and a couple of southern guns, even a Hawken and a Vincent. No two exactly alike. What happens is I will sell a Beck, for example, and someone will call and want one just like it, but in a different caliber or barrel length, or steel instead of brass furniture. I recently started a Peter White Bedford style rifle for a customer. It will have more Maryland characteristics than Bedford because that is where White was trained.

[Nordnecker]

Interresting responses. I realize there are so many guns to copy that it would be kind of boring to do the same one over and over. I asked this question because I am building the same gun over again. Of course it's totally different from the first one because I have much better parts and information than I did when I built the first one.

[Mike Brooks]

What happens is I will sell a Beck, for example, and someone will call and want one just like it, but in a different caliber or barrel length, or steel instead of brass furniture.

This is the problem I ran into and all of a sudden I became the "Fowling gun guy". That was fine and I like building fowling guns but There are other things I'd like to  build before I retire. So,  I quit taking every order that came in and started building guns I have always wanted to build on speculation. So far, it has worked great. And as usual, now people want me to build the types of guns I have been building on speculation. Which is fine too, as I'm not tired of building these "new to me" styles.

[rick/pa]

Mike, your answer reminds me of one of my father's favorite sayings.  When some one spoke of their experience, he'd say "They don't have 20 years experience, they have one years experience 20 times."  I guess that's a plus when building, gives you a chance to correct any mistakes in previous guns.  I haven't made enough to correct them all yet. At times I think my learning curve must resemble a circle.

[ron w]

I would imagine that someone here will say that they never build the same gun twice being that each gun is hand made one at a time and therefore somewhat different in each build. this, I guess can be taken as a true statement, yet, if you build two S Hawkens with any deliberate amount of accurate reproduction,....you have just built the same gun twice  and i'm quite sure that has been done. i'm also quite sure that anyone building on a custom order basis, has indeed built the same gun twice at some point in their production. as there are many more shooters than schools of design, a repeat build has to have come along.....it's inevitable..

[Bob Roller]

This discussion reminds me of what an old tool and die maker said when
he found out I was working in a production shop across the street from him.
He said,"I never liked production work and have trouble getting ONE of anything
alike,much less TWO". . I don't make guns and when I was heavily engaged in
lock making I never worried about getting two alike.Individually crafted just like
the guns they went on.Same with triggers,all individually crafted.I doubt if any
of the old makers,unless they were contractors for the military worried about it either.
Similar,yes,exactly alike,not so much.

Bob Roller

[ron w]

when building with hand tools, it's nearly impossible to exactly copy a previously built item. it might be the "same item" for all practical and functional purposes, but not an identical item. personally, I think this is a good thing,....we aren't machines.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I worked during the last quarter of the 20th C for a gunmaker producing copies of a S. Hawken design rifle.  We produced 176 of them over three years but they included a smaller version for small statured folks, a full stocked Hawken and a Hawken pistol.  And though there were a couple of other workers in the shop from time to time, I had a hand in almost all of them.  In my own shop. I have built about twenty Hawken rifles too;  it was what the customer wanted.
I have built three A. Verner fancy rifles, each one better than the previous, but basically the same.  Jaegers three, but all different.  JP Beck's - several, but again, all different.  Even with an original style, such as a Hawken, it is easy to personalize them and make each one a little different. And with well over a hundred muzzleloading guns out the door, it would be difficult not to make duplicates.

[oldtravler61]

  Well luckily I don't build anything exact. Because I'm not 100% sure on anything I make. I survive under the close but no cigar method. I have the first three I built out of the 12 now. Still learning. Oldtravler

[Waksupi]

Well, I put together over 150 trade guns for NorthStarWest, and an unknown number of same pattern rifles for Serengeti Rifles, if those count.

[Dphariss]

So many guns....so little time!  I love the challenge of each and every new project.  That said, I can't remember ever building the same gun twice.  My interests very as time goes by so building from different schools and regional areas keeps things interesting.  I am currently working on a commission but prefer to build what I want, then when a client and I come to an agreement on a price, I sell the gun and move onto my next gun on my list.  It is easier to meet deadlines and expectations when you are working for yourself. 
David

I am working on a light (standard?) weight version of RCA 48. But the first one weighs about 18 pounds....
But it will not be "identical" other than the same stock pattern and lock.

Dan

[jerrywh]

 I have never built the same gun twice but for years I used the Lancaster style stock on long rifles.  For the last 15 or 20 years I have built nothing but high art custom guns and I promise my customers you will never see another one like the one you buy from me.