Author Topic: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?  (Read 1248 times)

Offline Marcruger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3702
Hi Folks,

Does anyone know when these ball and post leather fasteners were created? 



I have searched online and cannot find it.  I did find out that snaps are way earlier than I thought.  Snaps were invented around 1885, and apparently were in fairly widespread use 20 years later. 

I would think the ball and post fastener would predate the snap. 

Anyone have an answer? 

Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Offline Greg Pennell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1523
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 02:18:36 AM »
Good question Marc...I’ve been wondering the same thing. I like those, and would use them on a few small projects if they’re within 50 years or so of 1800, plus or minus. I’m not the most PC guy on the block, but I don’t want to be totally out in left field, either.  :o. Hopefully one of our resident historians can help out...

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2019, 04:48:13 AM »
Military Sam Browne's from WWI had them, but they didn't feature the Chicago screw type pictured here.  They simply were pushed through a slotted hole,and a disc of leather sewn over the base disc from the inside.  But I suspect these have been around for much longer - centuries longer.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Brokennock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2019, 05:04:53 AM »
Sam Browne designed his belt sometime shortly after he lost his left arm to a sword cut in 1858, so I would assume that stud type button predates 1858. I doubt he would have designed, and had made, a custom/new button design.

Offline LRB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1567
    • WICK ELLERBE
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2019, 03:37:10 PM »
From what I've seen and been told they are at least good for 18th c. However they are not quite the same as todays. The few I've seen in pics have a flat under the dome rather than just a ball on a post. James Rogers would probably have good info on them.

Offline Marcruger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3702
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2019, 05:57:59 PM »
Many thanks.  That is what I was thinking too.  Knowing James, he can probably pull out an image of a painting with one in use on a bag.   :-)   

God Bless,   Marc

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2019, 06:09:06 PM »
Common on belts and boxes during war of northern aggression. I think the post went thru and peened over a washer like a rivet as opposed to the common style you pictured. I don't have an image to post. I need to research these more and will share what I find. Hope y'all will do the same.

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Oklahoma
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2019, 02:53:02 AM »
The ball and post style shown in the OP seems to be a later improvement of the standard riveted finial that was in use at least back before the US Civil War. Those were secured similar to the common rivet and burr. In other words, the acorn shaped button had a long post on the back that was pushed through a hole and then a washer was pushed on behind the leather and the end of the post was cut just proud of it and peened over.

I'm sure the type I describe goes back much farther, but my area of research in original military equipage only goes back that far due to a lack of any good examples I've had access too. I've seen them with ball ends, flattened ends, and more pointed ends and made from brass, copper, iron and lead/pewter, with brass being the most common I've encountered (pre 20th Century).
Psalms 144

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: Ball and post leather fasterners - when were they created?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2019, 04:25:22 AM »
It would not surprise me if the Romans used similar fasteners BC and AD.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.