Author Topic: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?  (Read 2254 times)

Offline jrb

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"tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« on: April 07, 2019, 09:45:22 PM »
Tandy and Springfield leather both list an all veg tanned cowhide that's tumbled or milled, making it much softer than typical veg tanned tooling leather.
 i'm wondering about using it on a hunting pouch. is anyone here familiar with it?
 is "tumbling" veg tan a  more modern thing?
Thanks
John

Online James Rogers

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 02:22:04 AM »
Its pretty flimsy stuff from what I remember.  Like chrome tanned.

Offline Marcruger

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 07:44:34 PM »
I am buying tooling leather and breaking it myself for flexibility before making parts of my projects.

I would shy away from tumbled leather. God bless, Marc

Offline Huntschool

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 01:19:17 AM »
My experience with this "tumbled" leather is limited but I agree with  Marc and James.  Its seems the "fibers" of the leather have been badly broken and as such lose the leather strength.

JMHO
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:59:29 AM by Huntschool »
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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 02:26:55 PM »
Is this like “drum dyed” leather??

Online James Rogers

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 03:30:21 PM »
Totally different animal

Offline jrb

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 08:29:08 PM »
Thanks for the info guys !
John

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 01:55:38 AM »
Tandy and Springfield leather both list an all veg tanned cowhide that's tumbled or milled, making it much softer than typical veg tanned tooling leather.
 i'm wondering about using it on a hunting pouch. is anyone here familiar with it?
 is "tumbling" veg tan a  more modern thing?
Thanks
John

You must go back some years in the leather industry to understand this tumbled thing.  At one time it was known as "stuffing" the leather.  The finished leather was placed in a rotating barrel.  Then they added a non-drying oil.  In the 1900s they used a lot of menhadden fish oil.  The oil was worked into the leather by the tumbling and rubbing between the pieces of leather.  Forcing the non-drying oil into the leather and the oil acted in the leather as an internal lubricant.  With that process you got no broken leather fibers.  The resulting leather was very soft and supple.  It also acted to some degree as a waterprofing agent.  According to the chemical industry text books I read they once used lanolin from sheep to do the same thing.  The old method of "stuffing" increased the durability of the leather.  Dry tumbling does little more than break the leather structure down.

Bill K.

Offline davec2

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2019, 06:39:21 AM »
The kangaroo leather I have used for a few projects (shot pouch, accoutrement wallet, etc.) is sold as "drum stuffed".  And, just as Mad Monk describes, it is done with a "grease" that makes the leather very supple without compromising its strength.  In fact, kangaroo leather is used for bull whips because it is 3 to 4 times as strong as any other leather and the drum stuffing lubricates the fibers so that they hold up to the stress of the whip.

The pictures below are of a shot pouch I made for myself some time ago and then another made by James Rogers for me.....both made of stuffed kangaroo leather.  (It's pretty obvious who made which bag).  The accessory wallet I also made out of kangaroo leather.  All of the 'roo leather was "drum stuffed" and it is both supple and very tough.  I have not used bovine leather treated in the same manner, but I don't think the strength would be compromised at all if it is stuffed with a lubricant grease or oil.

By the way, the drum stuffed 'roo leather does not feel greasy or oily at all....just much more supple than tooling leather.







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Online James Rogers

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2019, 07:12:15 PM »
I believe the leather the OP is referring to is tumble milled, not stuffed with oil by drum, etc.  From what I have seen in person it has hardly no temper or hand, flimsy like chrome tanned deer but thicker of course. Your bridles and harness leather are either hand hot stuffed or many times today drum stuffed. That kangaroo leather was good to work with. I think stuffed leather is good "stuff" ; )

Offline Zucatti24

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2019, 11:23:11 PM »
A lot of the pouches my dad and I have made  for ourselves are from milled veg tan 5-6 oz. from Tandy. Flimsy but when alcohol dye is used it stiffens up some and mink oil let’s it be flexible again. Strong and light weight for a pouch in my opinion. Going to buy more this weekend to make more pouches from it.








Offline Notchy Bob

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Re: "tumbled" veg tan leather ?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 06:00:04 AM »
I have a couple of milled vegetable tanned shoulders from Tandy.  This is vegetable tanned leather, not chrome tanned.  It is dry, and not oily.  It is the same light flesh color as the regular vegetable tanned leather.  The leather I bought from them is exactly like the "regular" vegetable tanned leather, except more supple.  It is not floppy, just more flexible.  I haven't made anything from it yet, but have plans for a couple of pouches and may try some of the cowhide moccasins or souliers de boeuf as shown in the Voyageur's Sketchbook.  These were made from bark tanned cowhide, and the milled leather should work a lot better than the regular veg tan, which is quite stiff.

Tandy describes this leather as "milled."  Here is their product page:  Milled Single Shoulders.  Tandy doesn't use the word "tumbled," and as a previous responder noted, this may refer to a different process of leather treatment.  I don't know anything about the product from Springfield Leather.

Most soft leathers are chrome tanned, meaning they are treated with chromium salts.  As you might suspect, these salts are highly corrosive.  Some people are also allergic to this chemical.  Bark or vegetable tanned leathers are inherently less corrosive, although all leathers are hygroscopic, i.e. they absorb atmospheric moisture.  The point being that if you want to make a holster or knife sheath, you should use veg tan leather, and if you have a project requiring softer leather which may be in contact with iron or steel tools for prolonged periods (such as a nipple wrench or screwdriver in your hunting pouch), the milled veg tan might be preferable to almost any other leather, with the possible exception of braintan.

I think the lighter weight milled veg tan leather from Tandy should work well for a hunting pouch.  You will probably want to dye it, although a coat of neatsfoot oil brushed on will turn it a pleasing light brown color... and I will add that neatsfoot oil has always been used as a leather dressing (that's what it's for), and never as a hoof dressing, as some people will tell you.  They call it neatsfoot oil because it is oil rendered from cattle feet.  I learned the basics of leatherwork from my dad, and he used neatsfoot as a leather dressing, and it has always worked well for me.  My wife and I also have horses.  You want to treat their hooves with something that will make the hooves tough, not soft.  When I first became acquainted with the nonsense about treating horse's hooves with neatsfoot, I gave it the benefit of a doubt and checked with several of the local farriors.  None of them had ever heard of it.

Sorry about the digression.  In any event, I think the milled veg tan leather should make a dandy pouch, whether you dye it, oil it, or let it darken naturally.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob   
"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us.  Should have rode horses.  Kept dogs."

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