Author Topic: Skychief load for small diameter smoothbores (Read 5763 times)

R.J.Bruce · « **on:** April 11, 2019, 07:27:45 AM »

I know that some members here participate on The Muzzleloading Forum.

I do not have the memory in my phone to open an account on the forum, so I am posting here in hopes of a reply until such time that I can open an account and post over there.

In the Smoothbores section of that forum there is a lot of talk about the Skychief load.

Said load is the powder charge, a 1/8" hard card wad (not felt, cork, cushion, or anything else), the shot charge, a thin overshot card wad, and finally a 1/2" fiber cushion wad that is completely soaked in olive oil (and not squeezed out).

Against all the laws of ballistics, as well as what people think should, or should not, work; the Skychief load seems to repeatedly give extra full and super full choke patterns at 40-50 yards from a cylinder bore gun. This is in the larger bores from 20 gauge to 10 gauge.

My question to anyone here that has used the load is do you think it would work with a 33 gauge, 0.520" diameter smoothbore?

Ballistics Products sells 32 gauge, 0.530" diameter, hard nitro card wads (0.125" thick), overshot card wads (0.030"-0.040" thick), and fiber cushion wads (0.500" thick).

I am trying to assemble the parts for a riff on Mike Brooks's Game Creeper's rifle that he built for himself back in 2016.

It would have Manton percussion 13/16" hooked breechplugs attached to 27" long octagon barrels tapering from 0.8125" to 0.7045".

One barrel would be rifled in .45 caliber, and I was considering a 33 gauge smoothbore for turkeys and other small game.

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks,
R.J.Bruce

Brokennock · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2019, 07:38:09 AM »

Skychief is on this forum too so he may chime in. I think Britsmoothy, who is also on that forum and does a lot of hunting with a .45 smooth rifle, has used the Skychief load with success. I'll try to figure a way to post your question to him.

Daryl · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2019, 08:04:44 AM »

I've never heard of such a load, but am willing to pattern it in my 20 bore. It has a slight choke and shoots modified patterns now,
so perhaps we'll have to test this is a couple of Taylor's guns, like the 15 bore Manton & his 20 bore, both without chokes & in need of better patterns.
Got some patch-less round ball loads to test as well.
My magnet peep sights arrived, so aiming with the round balls will kinda be like cheating.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2019, 04:48:24 PM »

I am very familiar with the Skychief load as it is a hot topic on the M/L Forum. Everyone that tries it expecting the wad to blow the pattern is surprised when their load tightens up.

I had Caywood jug choke two 12ga barrels for me, I gave one to a friend and kept one. My friend's barrels choke was cut perfectly and shoots a great, tight pattern, mine was apparently poorly done and never shot a pattern better than modified with any wad/powder combo.

My first attempt at a Skychief load was disappointing but I put a dry cushion wad over the shot. I tried 2 1/8" hard cards and got a little better success but not what I had hoped for.

Just before turkey season I gave it another try, lubing the 1/2" wad this time. First I put the wads in a bowl of olive oil and heated them in the microwave to saturate them, too much oil, they were a mess to load.

For my last few shots I just rolled the wad in the olive oil quickly, it still absorbed the oil like a sponge and loaded without the oil dripping down the sides of my barrel.

OK, here it is, from a barrel that never shot a tight pattern; 90 gr of 1F, 4 thin cereal box wads (wheaties) 1 1/2 oz #6 shot and a 1/2" oiled cushion wad over the shot, 27 yards, the total pattern is about 18" in diameter at that distance. I edited the picture, the one I initially put up was not the one I shot the other day and might have been shot twice.

My buddie's gun with the perfect jug choke will shoot about the same pattern at 35-40 yards with the Skychief load.

Here is the printable turkey target I use;

http://www.guncustomizing.com/targprt.htm

Here is my pattern at 25 yards before the Skychief load, probably copper plated #4s, still pretty thin. I didn't have the camera's date set correctly;

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2019, 05:08:14 PM »

Not wanting to sidetrack this threqad, but it just came to me that the oil may be the reason for these loads working;
half the pellets in a load seem to contact the barrel walls, and get abraded to some degree, so if the oil causes them to slide and prevent damage, the resulting pattern could be better.
I was always going to try this load but not got at it yet.

RJ-B,
In a small calibre, the shot column is longer (In proportion)than in a larger bore, so usually more proportional pellet damage ensues, so this load is very worth a try!

Feltwad · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2019, 05:17:27 PM »

This has been debated on the other forums many times, yes I have tried it in different bore sizes and found no difference maybe it is best on repro guns has I only use the original Damascus barrels guns . All I can say is try it and if you are satisfied with the result ok us it that is what muzzle loading shotgun is all about
Feltwad

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2019, 05:21:41 PM »

You may be right, I remember the infamous "Roundball" on the M/L forum said he would heavilly grease up the inside of his barrel after he loaded to limit shot deformation.

He had a lot of good information to share but for some reason a bunch of the members stayed on him like a duck on a junebug, calling him to task on everything he put out and picking keyboard fights with him. He finally got sick of it and dropped off the radar.

Feltwad · « **Reply #7 on:** April 11, 2019, 07:46:17 PM »

Quote from: Eric Krewson on April 11, 2019, 05:21:41 PM

You may be right, I remember the infamous "Roundball" on the M/L forum said he would heavilly grease up the inside of his barrel after he loaded to limit shot deformation.

He had a lot of good information to share but for some reason a bunch of the members stayed on him like a duck on a junebug, calling him to task on everything he put out and picking keyboard fights with him. He finally got sick of it and dropped off the radar.

Yes it happened to me a year ago on that forum I was called some names, I still answer some questioned but not has much has used to ,it is best to walk away.
Feltwad

Skychief · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2019, 04:52:33 AM »

R.J., the smallest smoothbore I have is a 20 gauge, so can not comment firsthand regarding results using the load in the smaller guns.

Hope that you will give it a try and find success with it.

Best regards, Skychief.

Daryl · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2019, 05:02:28 AM »

You just never know, until you try it, R.J. Bruce, with any gun.
Be prepared to experiment a bit with different options, wads,
wad placement, powder and shot charge. I've hear some guys
say 3F gave better, patterns, others 2F and some 1F. The gun will
decide.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2019, 07:40:51 AM »

Daryl is right.....with shotguns, there seems to be no absolutes. I had a 44" turkey choked colerain. Not picky. Shot a nice pattern with most anything I dumped down it....really shined with a load similar to what a buddy shot in his 38" version....Didn't like cleaning it and had it bored out and jugged. Cleaned and loaded easier...but boy she got picky. Learned what it liked and it shoots pretty decent. Built a 38" turkey choked gun.....now it's being picky lol.

I've fired countless test loads from these 3 barrels. No joke I've fired around 15 pounds of shot now lol.

I enjoy patterning though. So many different variables to experiment with.

Brokennock · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2019, 08:49:24 AM »

The lube on the bore would seem to be part of it. But the weight/mass of the saturated wad seems to be a factor for some reason as well. Those getting the best results with this load seem to report the big improvement in patterns to be when the wad is thoroughly soaked and heavy. Some have opined that the shot is "drafting" behind the heavy wad.

O.P. as Skychief has not chimed in here yet (you could try sending him a p.m.) I will copy and paste your question to a message to Britsmoothy who takes much game with his .45 smoothrifle.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2019, 04:19:07 PM »

The small smoothbores do seem to produce a tighter shot pattern, and retain it at longer range. I built my then young son ( about 25 years ago) a miniature northwest tradegun from an old .410 barrel. The barrel was only about 18” long, but the little gun shocked us when we filled it with shot. You could pulverize a clay bird with it at 30 yards. I know the shot column in these small bore smoothies are long, but would that make much difference shooting turkeys? I don’t think there are any regulations here on how small the bore size can be on a turkey gun.
I have an antique never used smoothbore barrel that is 30” long, and about 47 caliber. I am tempted to build a turkey gun out of it just for fun.

Hungry Horse

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2019, 05:05:30 PM »

Brokennock,

Skychief posted above, reply #8.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2019, 06:18:42 PM »

Now I’m really getting excited about some of these theory’s. I never thought about lubing the bore of a shotgun to reduce friction, and abrasions to the shot. And since shotguns don’t need the load to grip any kind of riflings, the whole shooting slick issue is off the table. So obviously you need the slickest lube, that isn’t adversely affected by heat, and doesn’t impart some sort of toxicity to whatever you shoot. Olive oil obviously works, but what about a more modern lube that creates an even slicker film on the inside of the barrel. The first one that comes to mind is PermaTex super lube. This stuff is really slick, comes in a grease form, or aerosol cans, and is food grade, so it’s nontoxic.
I use super lube in my locks because it doesn’t have any kind of color in it that creeps into, and out of all different places on a gun where you don’t want it. I don’t know why I never thought about using it as a lube for shotgun wads.

Hungry Horse

Brokennock · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2019, 07:59:46 PM »

I posted the entire o.p. in a private message to Britsmoothy on the m.l. forum last night/this morning.
Here is his response,
"In my .63 it does indeed work. Not to full choke performance mind!
I am not very scientific when it comes to testing, I just observe the occasional target should I wish to etc.

My little .45 I have not tried as I don't have any thick wads. Only cards, leather and felt.
My 12g's and Bess show similar advantages to using a heavy wet wad up front.
I don't really use a nitro card, instead I prefere a few thin cards on the powder.

Sorry I can not help with the feller's question but I am sure it would make some difference and be an advantage to improving the pattern.
Nathan"

Sorry it doesn't help much with your original small bore question. Try it and see what happens, it can't hurt.
I am thinking of melting some wax in a double boiler and dipping the soaked wads in the wax then letting the wax harden to reduce the mess of the soaked wads.

Skychief · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2019, 01:33:30 AM »

Hey Brokennock, I replied above just like Pukka pointed out.

Best regards, Skychief.

Brokennock · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2019, 09:47:43 AM »

Quote from: Skychief on April 14, 2019, 01:33:30 AM

Hey Brokennock, I replied above just like Pukka pointed out.

Best regards, Skychief.

Ya, I saw that after I wrote my post. Not sure how I missed it. Maybe my eyes could use some time with that later too.

Skychief · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2019, 08:11:44 PM »

Daryl · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2019, 08:43:07 PM »

Quote from: Brokennock on April 13, 2019, 08:49:24 AM

The lube on the bore would seem to be part of it. But the weight/mass of the saturated wad seems to be a factor for some reason as well. Those getting the best results with this load seem to report the big improvement in patterns to be when the wad is thoroughly soaked and heavy. Some have opined that the shot is "drafting" behind the heavy wad.

O.P. as Skychief has not chimed in here yet (you could try sending him a p.m.) I will copy and paste your question to a message to Britsmoothy who takes much game with his .45 smoothrifle.

When I pattern using donna-conna 1/2" wads, there are always wad holes in the target.
If the shot was 'drafting' behind that heavy wad, there would be wad holes in these targets posted.
I see none, which seems really strange, to me.

R.J.Bruce · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2019, 05:13:59 AM »

Thanks for all the input and comments.

When I get this gun built I will definitely try the Skychief load in it.

BritSmoothy--- Track of the Wolf here in the USA sells both 0.455" diameter and 0.460" diameter wads that you could use to try the Skychief load in your .45 caliber smooth rifle.

They have the 0.500" thick vegetable fiber wads, a 0.125" thick nitro card wad, and a 0.025" thick over shot card wad in those diameters.

Best regards,
R.J.Bruce

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2019, 05:27:08 AM »

RJ,

When I was still in the Uk, I bought a Pedersoli "Kentucky" rifle smooth bored as that way we could have it on a shotgun certificate.
It seemed just a toy when it arrived and didn't keep it long, but did fire it with both a ball and shot.
I remember once I shot a fox with it, and although only small shot was used, the pattern was V tight for some reason. Fox was only maybe 20 yards off, but all the pellets seemed to hit him in a fist-sized pattern.
I skinned him so could see the pattern on his hide well enough.
No skychief loads invented back then! (maybe 1971 or '2.)

Seeing what works is what counts as smoothbores are all individuals.

Daryl · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2019, 09:43:39 PM »

I had a .44 cal. smooth rifle that I ground a jug choke into the muzzle, about 1" back from the end of the barrel. I used a small sized brake cylinder hone with the small stones for this job.

Worked a treat and shot 45gr. 3F, card, then 3" .410 shot-cup full of #8's, almost 3/4oz then thin card. It patterned better than any modern .410 shotgun.

Back in 1981, I think it was, I broke 10 clay birds straight with it shooting against 20, some 12's and a 10 bore SxS at the local rendezvous. I used it with patched
round balls for bunny hunting as well and was good to about 50yards. It shot amazingly well.

Brokennock · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2019, 11:53:13 PM »

Quote from: Pukka Bundook on April 16, 2019, 05:27:08 AM

RJ,

When I was still in the Uk, I bought a Pedersoli "Kentucky" rifle smooth bored as that way we could have it on a shotgun certificate.
It seemed just a toy when it arrived and didn't keep it long, but did fire it with both a ball and shot.
I remember once I shot a fox with it, and although only small shot was used, the pattern was V tight for some reason. Fox was only maybe 20 yards off, but all the pellets seemed to hit him in a fist-sized pattern.
I skinned him so could see the pattern on his hide well enough.
No skychief loads invented back then! (maybe 1971 or '2.)

Seeing what works is what counts as smoothbores are all individuals.

I believe that is the smoothrifle Britsmoothy is using. Wish I could find one here in the U.S.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2019, 04:11:46 AM »

Brokennock,

The locks aren't really brilliant and I was quite pleased when I traded it off, as it hadn't the feel of a "real" gun.
No relation at all to a proper Long-rifle.

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Author Topic: Skychief load for small diameter smoothbores (Read 5763 times)