Author Topic: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)  (Read 2214 times)

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« on: April 15, 2019, 05:06:06 PM »
Played a bit yesterday afternoon with a Toradar/Torador folks.
I'd fixed the shattered stock some time ago.
Why I like different, I don't know.  Maybe someone can help me out?   (Therapy?)

As these guns usually had a powder chamber that took a huge load, (around 200 -240 grains being common)  I felt lucky when this one had only a slight tightening at the breech instead.
(powder chamber was usually in the form of a truncated cone, largest at the breech face, and narrowing at front so a ball will not pass through. )
This one is from Jaipur arsenal, in Rajasthan, and would be a hunting gun.  It is long and heavy!
As these did not change much over the hundreds of years, they are hard to date, but this one seems about late 18th-earloy 19th C.
It takes a .535" ball with no patch.  Bore still a little rough for a patch.

The original wadding was dried cow dung!  Very cheap around here so I tried it.   Dry is best!

First shots were with 2 1/2 drams of 1 -F as coarse powder seems to have been used.  At 60 yards, the hits were low and a bit spread.  (smooth bore, or fairly smooth anyway!)
It goes off like greased lightning with hemp matchcord soaked in wood ashes, with 4 F priming powder.
After a decent few shots, I wondered, seeing as they originally  used a lot more powder how a double dose would work.  It went off with a fair crack with 5 drams!
The cow dung seems to work very well for sealing the bore.  :-)  This charge brought op the POI to Point of aim, so knew we were on the right track.
as the groups were a bit wide, I tried it at 30 yards , and we seem to be on the money.  it really dents quarter inch plate.
I had two old felt 20-bore wads I'd picked up while checking targets, and with these , it was more accurate than with the cow dung!  Shame, as cow dung comes free.

Here are a couple of photos of the 30 yard shots.
the two at the left are with cow dung wads, and the right two are with the felt wads.
  The latter put deeper dents in the target.
Seems I need to now try felt wads at the 60 yard target.

Please pardon the not a long rifle, but it Is long, so we're half way right!

The two circled shots were with felt.
2 swallows don't make a summer, but worth further trial....   













Offline msellers

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 05:22:30 PM »
Richard,
These are very interesting indeed,  thanks for sharing. I do believe a matchlock needs to get back towards the top of my list to build one day.
Mike

Offline yulzari

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 06:40:05 PM »
Very nice Richard. That 5 drams is my musket load in a 0,76" or even a mite over. The gases must have been queueing up for the chance to get out down a 0,50" hole.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 07:09:59 PM »
One of the coolest guns I've seen for a while.
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Offline JBJ

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 09:27:47 PM »
Richard,
Thought that I had heard of just about everything imaginable being used for wadding but cow dung has to take first prize!
J.B.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 10:45:09 PM »
Cow dung might be free; but it ain't, well, free.   :-[
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 12:39:54 AM »
Richard,
Thought that I had heard of just about everything imaginable being used for wadding but cow dung has to take first prize!
J.B.

Cow dung, wasp nest - lots more cow dung around. If you have a large enough bore,

moose droppings would be perfect, and could be cut in 1/2 for shotgun wads. Then,

for smaller bores, there's elk, deer and rabbit 'pellets'.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 02:03:56 AM »
Good gracious.  What an impressive beasty!

God Bless,   Marc

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 02:42:43 AM »
Richard, when you mentioned cow dung, and dry working better, my mind immediately flashed to you trying to use "wet" cow dung!  Can't get the picture out of my head!!

It is a terrific looking tiger slayer, and I think you are quite brave to have tried 5 drams in it.  The target was impressive - go around to the back and read it in Braille.

I've got to come visit your collection one day, for sure.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 04:43:16 AM »
Mike S,

You'd get a kick out of a matchlock. ;)

I tried it with 2 f, and 1f as priming and it went off just as fast.  Also used "mushrooms"  (tree fungus), and still went off like lightning.

Pretty cheap to run with no flints or caps to buy.
John,
I wanted to try one of these particularly, as they appeared to outrange the British ordnance by quite a margin in the various exchanges fought in India.
The heavy powder charge appears normal, and would increase range of course.   I smiled at your gas queuing up to get out bit!
Mike B,
I have some full length photos somewhere, I think from when I fixed the stock.  will look.

JB,
I can start selling packages of "wads" if you want some.  :-)
Good idea on the moose droppings Daryl, already formed to just ram down!  Try some.    (By that I mean in your gun!)

Craig,

Yes, you can certainly read it in braille. 
And also yes, wet cow dung would be well, like loading it with something soft!

Barrel is a tad under 42" long.

It's an interesting thing and I stand to be corrected, but as far as I know, these matchlocks with the two birds (hamsa) on the buttstock, are all from Jaipur.   It must have been a family thing for the Rajahs to have them so placed.   These hamsa are mythological birds but important to Hindu belief.  They are often depicted as gees or swans.  Also the lotus flowers, always present.

See below a few more from Jaipur and Amber fortresses;
These are internet pictures, but show the similarities.
These Jaipur pieces all have the same pierced triggers, and what is a bit unusual, a hole behind the breech where the match can be snuffed. Most others have a metal match snuffer attached to the side. Only seen the drilled hole in pieces from Jaipur.











« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 05:31:10 AM by Pukka Bundook »

Offline Daryl

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 09:47:43 PM »
VERY intriguing, Richard.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline yulzari

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 12:25:19 AM »
I have a note of a complaint from the 5th Punjab Infantry in 1863 that their Brunswick Rifles were outranged by Pashtun Kohat made rifles which 'made good shooting at 400 yards' and pinned them down behind sungars (aka sangars). In a way these were akin to a large bore matchlock Long Rifle and made in the same way: if you can have a matchlock Long Rifle.....

Can I have a go with it in June?
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Ready for tigers...................at Close range! :-)
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 03:50:13 AM »
Jihn,

You can definitely have  a play with it in June!
 I have two longer barrels to stock up, and a really light one in working order.
The longer barrels are I think about 52".
One is about .58 I think, and one  a bit bigger.