Add red to stock finish

[Nordnecker]

After MANY tests and trials, I would like to make my stock a bit redder. It actually has good color from the muzzle through the wrist, but the butt is kinda, well, greenish.
Is there something I could try in the oil finish that would "tone" it a little? 

[rich pierce]

Search for “alkanet root”. I’d be scared to walk under that overhead anvil!  Is that like a booby trap to keep thieves out of your shop?

[Ky-Flinter]

Chambers oil finish has a red tint to it.  Might be enough for you.  I have no experience with adding color to the finish.  To stain yes, finish no.

-Ron

[Flycaster1977]

I can see what u mean by greenish. You can seperate out a small amount of your finish and add a few drops of laurel mountain forge or trans tint stain to it. I would only apply it to the areas you want to color. It may not do what u want it to though, mostly it would add a reddish tinge to what u already have.

[mtlonghunter]

My experience has been anything added to the finish product, color wise, will float to the top and eventually wear off. On your hands and inside the gun case. Unless it comes premixed from the manufacture. If you don't have any oil product on the stock yet just keep messing around with stains until you get what you like.

[Mike Lyons]

I've used the dark red madder root from Kremer Pigments.  It will add a red tint to your stock but it will also cover your figure to a point.  I think the tint will still be a different shade in that area. You can almost see the line where the AF didn't work for some reason.  Maybe the wood is a different density in that area.  Did you blush the AF in that area enough?  Did you use one two or three coats of AF?  If it were mine, I'd strip it and start over. 

[Bigmon]

If you have not yet applied any finish other than the stain, I think you could just apply a coat of another stain over top, red or any other color.  Most of that stock looks fime other than the greenish tint.  Maybe some of TigerHunts Chestnut?  Or for red, Chestnut Ridge's Military Gun Stock Stain Walnut w/ a hint of red.  Both are alcohol based.
The photo is the red stain but on cherry, bbut it might give you an idea of how red and how walnut?

[Dan Fruth]

If you use artist oil paint you can "tint" your finish to move the color to the desired shade you want. This is the way furniture manufacturers  finish their wooden furniture. You will have to find the oil color you need...These are available at art supply places like Hobby Lobby or Pat Catans. I use a small glass dish and pour in my clear finish and then use a bit of the correct oil pigment color and add it to the finish, then apply this "tinted finish" to your stock.

[Eric Kettenburg]

What did you stain that with?  If you're using a nitric acid based stain, my first thought is that you did not let the stain dry long enough before blushing, and/or did not heat that portion of the stock enough to convert the color.  Is there anything on that other than the stain?

[Nordnecker]

I DO apreciate everyone's input here. I'm willing to try anything at this point.

I'd strip it and start over. 
I already did that.

I started testing scraps weeks ago. The scraps, all from the same piece of wood as the stock, wanted to turn black. I tried dilluting the AF to keep from losing all of the figure. I didn't have any scraps from the buttstock area, only stuff from the wrist forward. I had some other chunks, from the same piece of wood that came out nice and reddish brown after blushing.
On the first go-round with the stock, I tried some dye stains after the AF, didn't like the results, and stripped the stock back to bare wood. I had to bleach it to get it all out. I let the stock dry for 4 or 5 days.
I bought new Wakahn Bay AF. I did more testing. It wanted to turn the scraps black, too. I ended up dilluting it 4 to 1 with distilled water.
What I saw from the test scraps was this-

  -I let the AF dry overnight before blushing.

  -It blushed nice and reddish brown just like you'd expect. Within minutes, it turned grey/black. Wiping on amonia seemed to help to make it red again.

   - I was pretty doggone confident that I would get good color this time. After sealing, drying , and several top coats, my test scrap looked pretty good so I went ahead with it.

It pretty much looked just like this on the first go-round. At that time, I tried re-blushing which did nothing. I really don't want to strip it again.

This strip shows the progression from bare wood at the top, AF after blushing that turned greyish afterwards. The finish without ammonia, then ammonia added after blushing with oil finish on top. The other block was stronger AF after blushing, etc.

[Nordnecker]

Search for “alkanet root”. I’d be scared to walk under that overhead anvil!  Is that like a booby trap to keep thieves out of your shop?

A friend has some alkanet root but He won't be around till the weekend. Nah, That little anvil wouldn't hurt anybody.

[mtlonghunter]

Is it possible you're getting a reacation from the bleach residue?

[Eric Kettenburg]

Is it possible you're getting a reacation from the bleach residue?

Yes, I believe so, given the description of the process.  There are a lot of chemicals in various strippers and bleaches which are going to affect the wood itself as well as the aqua fortis used (I am fairly positive Wahkon Bay uses both nitric and hydrochloric acids).  At this point you are probably going to need to go with washes of anilines or solar lux type stains to get the color you want as I don;t think it's going to be possible with more period type staining.

You can either make or purchase various transparent iron oxides to mull into an oil finish to create a colored top coating/coatings which will not obscure the grain. They can be made from the residue of aquafortis manufacture or can be purchased from Kremer - look for "translucent" oxides either brown, yellow or red.  they will have to be mulled into a linseed oil based finish but will do what you want.  This would be the historical route, but it's a slow process. 

[Mauser06]

You should have left the AF alone I think....



After tannic acid and iron nitrate dried


After blushing




Oiling


Finished



The blushing turns it a deep cherry color...oil alone is a fairly dark often a deeeeeeep dark maroon.  As it's rubbed back and oil is applied I can get from blonde to that deep dark maroon.




I will say....your color isn't horrible....could be much worse lol.

Did you do anything different to the buttstock?  It's definitely a lighter tone than the rest?   But the wood also has something interesting going on too...

[yulzari]

I join the vote for alkanet root in the oil.

[Nordnecker]

Is the alkanet root going to be more effective than artist pigment mixed with the oil? I mixed a little alizarin crimson with it yesterday and tried it on a scrap. It didn't do much. This stock might have been a good candidate for violin varnish.
There does seem to be a change of direction in the grain of the buttstock. The grain almost disapears when looking straight at it. If you look at from a 45 degree angle it fills with stripe.

[Ed Wenger]

Is there varnish on the stock, or just stained at this point?


        Ed

[Nordnecker]

Yes, it has 2 coats of oil at this point.

[Ed Wenger]

Okay...., with that in mind I’d probably do what Eric suggested.  You can try the alkanet root varnish, but I think you need something a little “stronger”.  The stains Eric talked about, I feel, would probably work better, especially in blending the two areas.

At this point, I’d also be tempted to see if stain (Laura Mountain, or other analine) would darken it, even with varnish applied.  Maybe test a tiny area and see what happens.  Good luck, I’ll be very interested to see how things work out. 


       Ed

[Nordnecker]

OK. Looking at Kremer products; I see iron oxide pigments, red oxide M 120 for $10, seems reasonable. My Bro in law could probably pick it up for me and send it back with my cousin in the next day or two. What a coincidence.

Just for laughs- I think this stock is greener now than it was 2 days ago. It's about the same color as it was before I stripped it.

This piece of wood was "left over" from a plank that I built a table out of a year ago. The customer wanted it green. Really.

[Pete G.]

I guess you could use left over stain from the table and call it a"Tactical Flintlock".

[Bigmon]

Why can't you just apply some of the same original stain and heat it more, at least over the greenish area, and try and blend it?

[helwood]

Greetings,
First let me say I like Alkanet Root very much and I use it on my European Walnut stocks evening out my color.  BUT the thing you have to remember about Alkanet Root is that it is Light Fugitive and I believe Ed is absolutely correct.  I bought my "life time" supply of Alkanet Root  from Olde Mill Cabinet Shoppe.  Not sure if they are still open  their  address was    oldemill.com    Later, Hank

[Curtis]

Like Ed and Hank mentioned, I have use LMF Maple over oil finish, and it still penetrated to the wood with good reults.  I have also mixed a few drops into my finish oil in a dish and applied it in subsequent coats.  The LMF will penetrate many oil finishes that aren't too thick, but if you used a urethane finish, probably not.

Curtis

[Nordnecker]

I want thank EVERYONE for your input on this. I have read these responses over and over. I didn't see transluscent oxides on Kremer's site. Not sure if the red oxide M 120 is what I need or not.

A freind has alkanet root that has been soaking in alcohol for a year or so. I'm willing to try these things. I have nothing to loose.

I could leave it like it is and call it Frankenfowler. I have a zucchini green horn to go with it.

But why is this happening? The stock turned green, just like this the first time around. I tried to correct it with transfast powders. I thought they were to blame for the green. I also thought that my AF had gotten contanimated and that's why I bought more.
I remember blushing one of my test scraps in good light and it turned that nice reddish brown and had the most incredible depth I have ever seen. It looked like the ripples were 1/2" deep. Then it turned black/ grey and lost it's depth. Of course I sealed and finished the scraps just like I would the gunstock. The green seems to creep in and intensify over a couple days.
It is a good thing that this gun is for me and not a customer who expects it by a deadline. I have never liked the look of pigmented stains on any type of wood. I much prefer reactive or dye type stains and have many colors of trnsfast and transtint in the shop.
I have always been of the opinion that AF is the correct stain for maple but this experience is definately causing me to doubt that it is always going to be right.
I think ultimately I'm going to end up stripping it down again. Even if I manage to cover the green with a red/brown wash it will still be there. After 75 years or so of Fowlin', squirrel huntin' beaver trappin', bar huntin', fightin' off injuns and carryin' it off to stand up for the cause it'll probably show itself. Can't have that.

It's horrible.