Author Topic: Finishing Products Experiment  (Read 4249 times)

Offline Mike Lyons

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Finishing Products Experiment
« on: April 27, 2019, 10:11:48 PM »
I’m trying an experiment with Tried and True Varnish, Waterlox Marine, True Oil and Jim Chambers Traditional Finish.  I just received the Jim Chambers Traditional Finish today,  so those three pieces only have one coat. The others are on the third coat. The wood is treated with Kibler’s Iron Nitrate.  From left to right, each piece is treated once with iron nitrate, twice and 3 times.  These pieces are Curly maple from a stock I’m currently working on.







KILTED COWBOY

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 10:19:23 PM »
Great experiment.
The tried and true looks like it makes the colors pop.
Can’t tell if it is glossier than the others

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2019, 10:24:51 PM »
I’ll add more pictures when they are finished completely.  The Tried and True is like honey. They are all wet in that picture.  The Chambers stuff soaked the first coat up,  so I’m not sure where it’s going to go. 

Offline hanshi

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 10:43:58 PM »
It sure does pop that grain.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2019, 12:02:13 AM »
Maybe when you’re done leave them out in the rain and see how they compare.
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Offline Mauser06

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 12:17:45 AM »
Man that tried and true looks like a nice clear finish. 


Looking forward to seeing the progression.  I've been using Chambers and I like it....easy to apply and dries well. 


Just read about tried and true.   Seems dying is a bit of an issue and says "indoor use only" which makes me question it for gun use though I know a few of the guys here use it.   


Maybe if you have time you can explain how the finishes are being applied and what you're doing between coats...and how long you have to wait before each coat in your conditions. 

Offline smart dog

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2019, 12:59:06 AM »
Hi Mauser,
When it says "indoor" use it means it does not have UV blockers and nothing more.  None of those other finishes have UV blockers either so don't worry about it saying "indoor" only.  None of the original finishes put on long rifles had "UV" blockers either and if they were made today would be labeled "indoor only". Tried and True is very good, which is why some of the best gun makers use it.

dave
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ron w

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2019, 01:02:45 AM »
best finish I ever used, I came upon totally by chance.   I was rummaging through my stains and varnishes and came upon a can of Minwax Poly varnish that was about 5 or more years old and  essentially empty except for a couple ounces in the bottom of the can with a thick skin over it. I cut the skin away and there was a thick almost gooey layer of urethane sitting there. I thought, what the heck, i'll try it and proceeded to rub some on a freshly done very fancy fiddle back maple stock with my fingers. it went on like butter and rubbed out tacky, much like a French Polish would. I did the entire stock and once it dried, i then rubbed it out with a scotchbrite pad dipped in fresh BLO as a lubricant, then I wiped it down with a rag  just barely dampened with paint thinner.  it is easily the nicest finish I have ever done. you can feel there is a finish on the wood, but it is definitely all in the woodgrain and the surface is smooth as silk. so now, I have to figure out how to obtain more of that thickened poly without having to wait another 5 or years !.

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2019, 01:48:03 AM »
I’m rubbing the finish on with a piece of grey scotch bright pad and steel wooling them after 24 hours.  Then dusting them with cheese cloth and repeating. 

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2019, 03:00:14 AM »
Thanx for the info Dave!  Wasn't sure if "indoor use" only meant it wouldn't do well against humidity/moisture. 


I like rubbing my finishes out and giving that hand rubbed "luster". Not a gloss or shine but a nice sheen.  From quick reading, tried and true might be worth me trying. 


Afghanvet, thanx for the additional info!   Looking forward to seeing how it progresses. 



I haven't finished enough guns to experiment much.  Now that I'm building from planks I have some scrapes to test with. 

Flycaster1977

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2019, 06:05:06 AM »
Man that tried and true looks like a nice clear finish. 


Looking forward to seeing the progression.  I've been using Chambers and I like it....easy to apply and dries well. 


Just read about tried and true.   Seems dying is a bit of an issue and says "indoor use only" which makes me question it for gun use though I know a few of the guys here use it.   


Maybe if you have time you can explain how the finishes are being applied and what you're doing between coats...and how long you have to wait before each coat in your conditions.

Mauser, what do u mean about dyeing being an issue?

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2019, 06:20:44 AM »
Meant to say Drying....sorry lol.

Further research suggests that's mostly user error than anything else....much like most finishes.  Sounds like it likes to be applied really thin then rubbed down after an hour or so. 

Flycaster1977

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2019, 07:38:51 AM »
That makes sense. Thanks mauser.

Offline hortonstn

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 04:26:20 PM »
Where did you get the tried&Struve?

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2019, 05:09:05 PM »
Amazon

ron w

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2019, 05:33:46 PM »
I’m rubbing the finish on with a piece of grey scotch bright pad and steel wooling them after 24 hours.  Then dusting them with cheese cloth and repeating.
      I like to use  some mineral spirits as a lubricant when I rub down a wiped on finish. I rub the finish on with fingers or with a scotchbrite pad, let it cure good and hard, then with steel wool, I dip it in spirits and rub the finish down wiping it immediately with a rag.  I find that scotch bright pads don't cut as good as I want and sometimes leave a finish that is smooth but has little spots of bumpy areas where the pad didn't cut evenly. steel wool has a tendency to cut those areas better. I do use scoth bright for the final rub down. another trick I use is to use scotch brite with Johnson's Paste Wax as a final polish. leaves the stock glass smooth with just a bit of sheen.

Offline mountainman

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2019, 08:53:50 PM »
Hi Mauser,
When it says "indoor" use it means it does not have UV blockers and nothing more.  None of those other finishes have UV blockers either so don't worry about it saying "indoor" only.  None of the original finishes put on long rifles had "UV" blockers either and if they were made today would be labeled "indoor only". Tried and True is very good, which is why some of the best gun makers use it.
added the /quote in brackets to signal forum software to stop the quote here. tdg

dave
Thanks for explaining that Dave, that makes sense! I wondered why gunbuilders were using that product when it's says indoor use only!!
I just might have to try it!!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 09:09:34 PM by Dennis Glazener »

Offline mountainman

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2019, 08:58:16 PM »
It appears I didn't do something right when I tried to copy the text, sorry for the inconvenience smartdog!

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2019, 09:04:15 PM »
I’ll add more pictures when they are finished completely.  The Tried and True is like honey. They are all wet in that picture.  The Chambers stuff soaked the first coat up,  so I’m not sure where it’s going to go.

It's going into the wood itself, that's where you want an oil finish, it becomes part of the wood and not just a top of the wood finish.
Dennis
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ron w

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2019, 10:42:32 PM »
just about al "wipe-on" finishes are meant to be absorbed into the wood's grain and designed to be applied in wet coats until the surface won't take any more. all woods have different densities (even within the same species) so they will all take the finish slightly different.

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2019, 12:02:23 AM »
 What are you trying to find out?

    Tim C. 

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2019, 12:28:51 AM »
What are you trying to find out?

    Tim C.
Tim,  I’m looking to see which product produces the color that I want for my current build.  I’ve heard so many different opinions that I figured I’d try them all on a scrap piece from the side of my stock.  I thought folks on here might be interested.   

Mike

Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2019, 01:01:37 AM »
I suggest you look at the MSDS info for each of the chosen finishes.  Because if the amount of varnish is not the same percentage in all of them, the one with the most varnish will build up a shiny finish first.  Too many times the MSDS info sheet will use some "stuff" called proprietary information, that could mean they might have used some off the shelf oil or varnish and don't want to tell us.  Or they really did create a miracle oil finish. 

Just because it creates a shiny finish the fastest, doesn't mean it is the best, it means that it has a higher percentage of varnish and less oil.  But then it could also have a lot more mineral spirits and very little oil in the overall concoction. 

Most homemade oil finishes have varnish, mineral spirits and BLO in about equal amounts.  For some good info on oil finishes, check out this link http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish7.shtml 

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2019, 01:08:44 AM »
The finishes should not affect color except very subtly. But they will likely look different if you apply and treat them each the same, and you’ll probably like one or another better. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finishing Products Experiment
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2019, 01:11:03 AM »
I didn’t mean to make this all that complicated.  I’m just finishing the pieces of wood the same way I have for years and then picking the one that looks the best to my eyeball.