Sanding wood and metal

[Tim]

I am finally making good progress on my Kibler SMR and need some advice.
Would it be best to sand the stock with all of the metal hardware attached to the stock?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Some parts, like the breech plug and tang, escutcheons, inlays, nose piece, should be dressed to the wood with fine files, and polished while on/in the wood.  Other parts, like the barrel, trigger guard, butt plate, rod pipes, should be removed, polished, finished, and then reinstalled in a finished stock.

[Dennis Glazener]

Taylor is correct. One reason is you will get fine particles of metal embedded in the wood, a pain to remove.
Dennis

[Tim]

Would it be ok to leave the butt plate on to use as a guide when sanding the stock in the butt plate area. Being careful not to sand any metal into the stock. That way
The wood will be even with the butt plate.

[Tim]

Also, when sanding the flats on the barrel after draw filing, do you always sand in the direction of the
Barrel flats or do I need to alternate and sand crossways of the flats after sanding in the direction of the flats? That way each each higher grade of sandpaper removed the scratches of the previously used
Grit of sandpaper. I may also use scotch bright pads as well.

[Dennis Glazener]

Would it be ok to leave the butt plate on to use as a guide when sanding the stock in the butt plate area. Being careful not to sand any metal into the stock. That way
The wood will be even with the butt plate.

Sure but I would remove it prior to finishing the wood or the metal.
Dennis

[tiswell]

Tim,
   I just finished a Kibler Colonial. It is the only gun that i have completed so take what I say with a grain of salt. All of the parts had been installed on the gun. I took the lock and thimbles out and removed the triggerguard then sanded the RR channel.  I took the trigger plate out to remove the trigger then I put the triggerplate back (this will probably be different on your rifle). I left the barrel in the gun to keep me from doing something stupid and cracking the stock.  If the wood was proud of the metal I used a file to get most of it and then sanded the wood down until it just met the metal and no more, trying to preserve Jim's lines of the gun. There was really very, very little , like .005"-.010" of wood at most to sand down. I had previously filed and rough sanded the butt plate, thimbles, and trigger guard before I installed them on the gun. I sanded the stock all over in decreasing grits using sanding blocks and contoured backing with the sandpaper whenever possible being careful not to remove the hard edges of the wood that I wanted to remain. It would only take a stroke or two to remove some of the definition that Jim had built into the gun in areas like where the top and bottom lines of the lock panels converge at the rear of the panel.  I whiskered it twice at 400 grit. The only areas that I could not get to was the top radius of the barrel channel and the short flat areas on either side of the lock . I sanded and whiskered that very carefully with the barrel removed. Then I hung it up out of the way where I would not be bumping into it. Good luck!

[DHS]

Tim,
   I just finished a Kibler Colonial. It is the only gun that i have completed so take what I say with a grain of salt. All of the parts had been installed on the gun. I took the lock and thimbles out and removed the triggerguard then sanded the RR channel.  I took the trigger plate out to remove the trigger then I put the triggerplate back (this will probably be different on your rifle). I left the barrel in the gun to keep me from doing something stupid and cracking the stock.  If the wood was proud of the metal I used a file to get most of it and then sanded the wood down until it just met the metal and no more, trying to preserve Jim's lines of the gun. There was really very, very little , like .005"-.010" of wood at most to sand down. I had previously filed and rough sanded the butt plate, thimbles, and trigger guard before I installed them on the gun. I sanded the stock all over in decreasing grits using sanding blocks and contoured backing with the sandpaper whenever possible being careful not to remove the hard edges of the wood that I wanted to remain. It would only take a stroke or two to remove some of the definition that Jim had built into the gun in areas like where the top and bottom lines of the lock panels converge at the rear of the panel.  I whiskered it twice at 400 grit. The only areas that I could not get to was the top radius of the barrel channel and the short flat areas on either side of the lock . I sanded and whiskered that very carefully with the barrel removed. Then I hung it up out of the way where I would not be bumping into it. Good luck!

To protect the foresock I make a 1/2 inch thick wood piece to fit into the barrel channel.  I keep it in place with a couple of Velcro straps.  It keeps the forestock ridged and protects the top edge of the barrel channel.  It's a lot lighter than keeping the barrel in place.  Use whatever thickness you need for the wood piece to be just proud of the top edge of the barrel channel.  I also try to keep a ramrod in place as much as possible for the same reason. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There is a big difference between completing a Kibler kit and finishing up a plank or even pre-carve build.  Brass buttplate need to be filed along mating edges, inlet onto the buttstock, and filed to shape attached.  You must files, scrape and sand your stock with it in place.  Only after you've satisfied yourself that all is well do you remove the butt plate, and finish polish it.  No more is done to the stock at that point apart from applying finish.  I stain (Ferric Nitrate) with all metal on the wood except the barrel and it's breech.  Otherwise, during that process, you WILL destroy sharp edges where wood and metal meet.  Once the wood is polished I never remove the patch box or it's side plates during the finishing process of the wood.
Forgive my approach, but common sense should steer you.

[Tim]

A big thanks to all of you for the good advice.
My main concerns is maintaining those edges and
Lines and only sanding away what isn’t needed.
Is it wise to sand the barrel flats in several directions
To effectively remove all scratches from prior grit of
Sandpaper?

[Dennis Glazener]

A big thanks to all of you for the good advice.
My main concerns is maintaining those edges and
Lines and only sanding away what isn’t needed.
Is it wise to sand the barrel flats in several directions
To effectively remove all scratches from prior grit of
Sandpaper?

I use flat metal backing such as an old file, then sand barrel flats lengthwise until file marks are gone. Others may differ.
Dennis

[tiswell]

I drawfiled first always going in the direction of the bullet path. Then sanded with paper wrapped around a file as Dennis said always going in the direction of the bullet path. If you grip the file and sandpaper wrapped file close to and at 90 degrees to the barrel you will feel the file contact the flat better and reduce the chance of tilting it off the flat. You hold it at 90 degrees but push in the direction of the bullet path. Your type of barrel treatment rust, blue, patina and use for the gun will dictate how shiny you should make the barrel. I would say that trying to file or sand the barrel at angles to the bullet path might promote rounding off the flats.
Also, when drawfiling I usually wipe the file off on my apron after every couple of stokes to reduce pinning which will leave a scratch in your barrel.

[Mike Brooks]

Sanding is not for wood removal. It's just a part of the finishing process. Most folks sand way too much, all you want to do is remove scratches and "whiskers". I remove all my file marks with a scraper then switch to sandpaper. I only sand to 220 grit. I have never done anything but draw file barrels, no sanding need if you do it right.

[flehto]

When most of the machining marks are gone by drawfiling { the shallow marks disappear after browning},  I don't use sandpaper on the bbl.

I scrape a lot of the stock shape and the 220 grit paper just smoothes   things out. The stock is whiskered using the 220 grit paper. As was said....don't use sandpaper to shape.......Fred

[alacran]

Very last thing I do , is remove the butt plate after the stock is completely finished.
I use a hanger attached to the uppermost thimble pin to dry. when stock is completely dry I place it on a table on a cotton cloth. then I remove butt plate, and do whatever dressing and finishing it requires.
The toe on SMR's, Hawken's, Vincents and such rifles are very fragile without the butt plate attached. Don't ask me how I know.