Cleaning Notched Breech Plug Face

[Frank]

With a Rice barrel I think that 0.010” patch is too thin to allow good performance, both accuracy and carrying enough lube to keep it easy loading without cleaning between shots. I’d go 0.015” minimum.

At .015 patch for their standard rifling and at least .020 patch for their round bottom rifling

[Buffaload]

Bob, I think you are on it.  A tight fitting patch is great for pushing fouling into the vent.
Patch/jag should slip down and wad up on pulling out!  Resizing the jag and a large patch works for me.
Been there, done that.
Ed

[Daryl]

Bob, I think you are on it. A tight fitting patch is great for pushing fouling into the vent.
Patch/jag should slip down and wad up on pulling out!  Resizing the jag and a large patch works for me.
Been there, done that.
Ed

Interesting, I've never had that happen in 47 years of shooting muzzle loaders.

[Buffaload]

Daryl,
There are a lot of variables in this business of shooting muzzleloading guns so it may be dependent on what barrel you use, depth of rifling, style of rifling, barrel length, caliber, etc.
The rifle I learned this on was a poor boy flint gun with a 36 cal 42” barrel.  Can’t remember who made the tube but it was a devil for fouling.  Could have been a bad lot of GOEX, there was some out there that was pretty sketchy back in the 80s as I recall.  At any rate, I also wipe between every shot, damp not wet, then a dry patch.  That may also lead to what I experienced but I dont believe in sopping wet patches for other reasons.  I shoot from the bag and dont carry a chemistry set around with me and have no intention of starting that nonsense.
I’ll give you another pearl of knowledge I have learned-I hear a lot of guys struggling with rust in bores of cleaned muzzleloading rifles-  I have never had that problem since I changed one thing, only one, I stopped using petroleum products in my bores.  I also shoot a lot of BPCRs and found this to be true there as well.  All of that shooting is using paper patched bullets.  I have never seen anything kill like those things.  But I digress. 
All the best,
Ed

[Daryl]

Ed, since about late 1972, I've not had to swab or wipe the bore while shooting THAT day, even is shooting all day - 40, 50, or 100 shots - no fouling buildup, so I do not really
understand why someone would have to wipe their bore - due to fouling buildup. Now, if you were in a match where there was only one shot fired every 15 or 20 minutes, I could
see wiping the bore to maintain an even bore condition, but not if shooting every couple of minutes as we do on a tail walk. When hunting small game, I follow the same sequence.
I load before heading out, then after a shot, I reload - then after shooting again, I reload. That reload cleans the bore from the previous shot. Never have a buildup.

If in chunk or plank match as shot in the States where there was a boringly long period of time between shots, I would likely wipe with a damp cloth, then dry one before reloading - due to the
previous shot's fouling would have dried, changing the bore condition. With a wet patch (as we commonly use) on the ball, it would still load quite easily, though the accuracy might suffer - would have to test that to be sure.

[bob in the woods]

Hi Daryl.  The reason you've never " Had that happen to me " is because you use a wet patch/ball combo that allows you to shoot all day without wiping [ That's what I do, too  ]   However....for those who do wipe between shots because of fouling build up, I've noticed that the jags as purchased , simply push all that junk down the bore to the plug . 

[alacran]

Hi Daryl.  The reason you've never " Had that happen to me " is because you use a wet patch/ball combo that allows you to shoot all day without wiping [ That's what I do, too  ]   However....for those who do wipe between shots because of fouling build up, I've noticed that the jags as purchased , simply push all that junk down the bore to the plug .
Like Daryl I use a tight ball/patch combo.  I lube mine with bear oil, they are not wet. They are not even moist. I go through a bit of trouble to get the excess oil out of my patch material. The last thing you want is to have patches wet with bear oil. specially in summer.

[JLayne]

All,

Went back to the range for a second test this weekend. Switched to a wet .018 pillow ticking patch lubricated with a 1:10 mix of Ballistol and water, and did not wipe between shots. I made it to the 11th shot before I had a flash in the pan. But, unlike last time, I just picked the vent, re-primed and the charge went off on a second try. I then used a breech plug scraper dry on the face of the plug and picked the vent again before taking another shot. On the next string, I made it about 5 shots before another flash in the pan, which again, was resolved with a quick vent hole pick and re-prime. At that point though, I decided not to push my luck any further and called it a day, wiping the bore several times with the patch lube mix and some dry patches before taking it home for a good cleaning.

For the final cleaning, I stuck a toothpick in the vent and filled the bore with water mixed with a bit of TOW's bore solvent. I let it stand about 5 minutes, emptied it and repeated a second time. After that, I used a siphon tube to plunge that same mixture up and down in the bore, then dried it out with patches until they came out dry and clean. Then I used  straight Ballistol on a patch to oil the bore. 

The wet patch method did produce better results for me. It doesn't appear this particular rifle will be able to go really long strings that some of you guys get with no scraping or cleaning around the breech face, but still I am more satisfied than with my initial outting using  the wonder lubed patches.  Now I just have to find the right patch/ball/powder combo for accuracy. It's a .40 caliber Rice (i.e. Buckeye Barrel) Barrel, so if any of you have any experience with good loads for the same that you are willing to share, that would be great.

Thanks again for the advice.

Jay

[Mike_StL]

All,

Thanks for all of the good advice. I have ordered some non-lubed thicker cotton patching (.015) and some pre-cut pillow ticking patches (.018)as well as the things needed to make the lube recipes some of you suggested. I will experiment with them and stop wiping between shots and see how that works.

On another note, assuming pillow ticking (.018) turns out to be the best patch material, do any of you ever buy it in bulk from a fabric store like say, Jo-Ann Fabrics, instead of buying the pre-cut ticking patches? If so, can you point me to an item number or link to look for the stuff I need, as there appears to be pillow ticking and mattress ticking, and I may be wrong, but would assume the mattress stuff to be thicker. Seems if I could get the right stuff in bulk, it would be cheaper to pre-lube the material and cut my own patching at the muzzle, and the patching would be more consistently centered.

Thanks,
Jay

I use Jo Ann's Fabrics as the source for my patches.  I prefer cotton #49 Drill Cloth (ITEM # 683532) over pillow ticking as it seems to be a tighter weave.  Also Jo Ann's will often have coupons to get 1/2 off on your purchase.  (Right now utility cloth is on sale at 50% off.) The cotton drill is in the utility cloth section and may not be with the pillow ticking.  Do take a caliper or micrometer to the store to measure the fabric, but be aware that the fabric on the bolt has sizing in it that will effect the measurement of thickness.  Wash any fabric before using it as a patch material.

Cotton Duck Canvas (ITEM # prd23683) is also available at a 40% discount.



I have a notched breech face on my rifle.  I use one of the dental floss brushes to clean the touch hole and wipe the notch in the breech face.  I have also found some thin pipe cleaners that fit the touch hole that dry the breech face and clean the touch hole. 

[Daryl]

As to using wet patches, that is only when on the trail. I use neetsfoot oil or Track's mink oil for hunting. No wiping needed whether trail walking or hunting.
I went into a Joanne's Fabric store in Yuma when visiting just to check their materials. They had some nice 11 oz. denim that would work well in most every
gun I have, with balls from .005" to .008" under bore size.  For my smoothbore's .615" choked muzzle, I use .020" canvas. with a .595" ball. Loading is easy
 in all, without having to wipe between shots. Some guys like to wipe or swab out their bores between shots, so be it.
Might be an idea to take some video of various people on our trail walk, coming up in July, Canada Day weekend, of shooting and loading, without wiping. No
one wipes their bores here. Most all use .020" to .022" denim for patches along with balls .005" smaller than the bore.