My Early Lancaster needs to shed some weight

[Eterry]

I recently completed an early Lancaster left hand flintlock from Dunlap's #6 maple blank, a colerain 42" barrel, and a Chamber's Siler lock, using the Isaac Haines plans from TOW.

This was my first build from scratch, but have assembled a few from kits 30 years ago.  I didn't have anything to compare it to, but after going to a couple muzzle loader shoots nearby i am convinced there is plenty wood in front of the lock that needs to go.  I'm pretty happy with the looks from butt plate to the lock, but the front end is a little "clubby", and thick.

I used a water based stain, about a dozen coats of truoil, then a couple coats of wax.

Here's my question...

Can i take the wood down around the lock and forward to the muzzle, then use the same stain and # of coats to tie it in, or am i going to have to strip it down all the way?

Also, at the lock the wood is above halfway on the side flat, but gradually gets closer to half flat at it reaches the cap.  Is there an easy way to mark the wood so i wont have to take the barrel in and out 20 times ?

Thanks guys, I feel like a 3rd grader asking help from college professors....

[Dennis Glazener]

Also, at the lock the wood is above halfway on the side flat, but gradually gets closer to half flat at it reaches the cap.  Is there an easy way to mark the wood so i wont have to take the barrel in and out 20 times ?

I have no experience with your strain nor Truoil so I will not offer my thoughts on those. Regarding the wood, measure the side flats then go by the inside corners of the barrel channel. It does not have to exactly 1/2 the diameter of the side flat, just close to it.
Dennis

[Bob McBride]

I’d fully take the stock back but you can try your idea. Might work. I’d measure to halfway on the barrel flat +/-, transfer that measurement to the stock front and back and score a line in the stock on both sides with a straight edge and rasp/file/sand to the line with the barrel out. Also expose half or more of the ramrod that way....

I then run a line two thirds up from the ramrod channel edge to the barrel channel edge and rasp/file down to the ramrod channel and up to the barrel channel from that line rounding as appropriate for the style. The straighter each of those two lines are the less wood you’ll have. The wood farthest from the barrel at that 2/3rds line should be 1/16” to an 1/8th or so away from the barrel.  If your not scared your not there.

I’m an amateur with not so many more stocks than you so factor that in. Experts will soon chime in.

[Bill Raby]

Best advice I can give is to take the wood down as far as you dare. Then carve more away. When you are convinced that you have destroyed it, you are getting close. Take some time to calm down, then cut away a little bit more wood.

[rich pierce]

I’d strip or scrape the whole gun rather than try to just reshape and refinish part of the stock,

[Eterry]

I forgot to mention the thing that worries me most about refinishing all of it is I spent a lot of time getting the wooden patchbox lid on tight... I'm afraid if I  refinish the butt stock i'll have to make another lid.

[Mike Lyons]

I’d follow Rich’s advice.

[rich pierce]

I forgot to mention the thing that worries me most about refinishing all of it is I spent a lot of time getting the wooden patchbox lid on tight... I'm afraid if I  refinish the butt stock i'll have to make another lid.

Think of it as practice. A guitarist likes playing guitar. Same song?  No problem. For hobbyists, a do-over is a low to no cost way of improving one’s skills.

[Scota4570]

Some ideas for you.  Get a plans set from Track.  Use it to make templates for the various contours.   Do not sand under the patchbox lid. Remove the finish with stripper.  Get some good stain.  Water base and oil based stain is useless on maple.  Laurel Mountain forge is a good stain.  They are spirit based dyes, it is different.     If you can get the old finish all off aqua fortis is what you want for a base coat of color.   Do your forend shaping with the barrel in the stock.  There should be not flat on the top edge of the forend barrel inlet, that is a modern thing.  Make some short pins to avoid trashing your scraper or spoke shave.  To make it look old you need to use old tools, so a scraper is a good way.  Do not try to shape the stock with sandpaper.  I never use True Oil anymore.  IT is too shiny for a long rifle.  It is low solids so it takes a gillion coats.  Use whatever finish the LMF stain vendor has.  Failing that diluted spar varnish is suitable.  I like the satin or mat varieties. Everyone has ideas on finish, it is more how you use it than what you use.   You can not sand between coats on maple. 

[Hungry Horse]

I believe, that if you ditch this project, you basically learn nothing. Every builder makes mistakes, or encounters issues in wood, or parts, that require thinking out of the box to overcome.
 On maple I prefer Aquafortis for bringing out the woods hidden beauty, a couple of coats of tonic acid applied before the Aquafortis will even make it better. Everything else basically rubs off of good hard maple. Acid stains are in the wood, not on the wood.
 I’m not a big fan of True oil. It wears poorly, and is way to shiny without manipulation. I make my own finishes, but they say some of the prepared finishes are pretty good.

    Hungry Horse

[jerrywh]

 #1 I never do any cutting on the fore stock with the barrel  in.  I don't want to scratch up the barrel. Make yourself a good strong stick to keep in the barrel channel. 
#2 true oil will make any kind of finish you want it to. It takes practice and it is superior to many in my opinion BUT stock finishes are a never ending controversy any where you go. I know a lot of gun makers in the American Gun makers Guild and the majority use it at least for a base coat. 
 #3 Blending it in at the place where the frizzen is should be easy because there is not as much area for people to see any differences.  I an an old body shop guy and always looked for an area where any paint repairs would not be noticed. Go at it but go slow.

[Eterry]

Thanks everyone for the info.  I have a set of plans from TOW, (read my first post), and i used them regularly.    The maple is harder than hammered lightening!!

I plan on stripping it down completely and talking a lot of wood off, just was hoping for a shortcut.  I should've known better.

I'll get a dowel to put in the channel for support. 

I've seen the debate about stains/finishes/lube on other sites....its worse than the old Blonde vs Redhead debates when i was in construction.

I plan on ghosting on here...maybe i can learn something.

[Scota4570]

For stain start with AF.  See where it goes.  I have a LMF dye stains, leather dyes, chemicals and powders.  I use those after I use AF to tweak the color.   

Hardware store stains are not suitable for maple, you will find agreement on that. 

All you really need is AF.  You can mix your own with Ferric Nitrate crystals and water or buy it pre-mixed. 

[Dphariss]

Most people need to take off more wood than they think they should.
If I had put on 12 coats of finish I would have shot myself by now. Tru-oil from the bottle is a huge PITA and needs about 50%re-heat treated  boiled LS oil make a good finish out of it.
Photos would help.
Remember the makers of the 18th C almost surely finished the stock in 1-2 days (or less) in summer using a LS oil varnish. Much less if a spirit varnish was used. Maybe a little longer in cold weather.
You can leave the barrel in for most of the work if you use a scraper(s). Take it all down where possible. Of the lower forend is too heavy so is the upper I am sure.
 Next time draw the outline on the blank to size. IE barrel, web, rod hole and wood to be left below the RR hole.
This was a rifle that weighs almost 18 pounds and a left a pretty deep web to a little more strength
Looks like this when done. Its no deeper in front of the lock than by 1" barreled Don King FS Hawken.
Cutting to or very close to the finish line helps keep one from leaving too much wood....
Dan

Seems I neglected to post a photo.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

One place that there is very often too much wood left in a reproduction rifle is that area below the bottom of the lock plate and above the trigger guard.  Sometimes the remaining wood between the ramrod hole and the bottom of the stock is as much as 1/4 inch, making the gunstock look too fat.  Here is a good way to slim down this area:

1.  Drill a small hole at the very rear of the barrel channel straight down entirely through the stock.  Drill just at the interface between the barrel breech end and the breech plug.  Don't worry, the hole will be covered completely by the front extension of the trigger guard.

2.  Looking carefully in the hole, you can easily see how much wood is below the ramrod hole.  This is good to do because sometimes the ramrod hole is not exactly where we wish it to be.  (understatement for sure!)

3.  Now you know where the ramrod hole is at both ends, at the entry pipe and at the breech.

4.  Shave the wood down until you only have about 1/16 inch or so below the ramrod pipe hole.  You may be surprised as to how much can be removed.  Usually I can see the ramrod hole when I inlet the trigger guard front extension.  Look at the pictures, below.

Jim