Irish muskets...

[JV Puleo]

This is a long shot but I might as well ask.
Has anyone here seen a Commercial Brown Bess with Irish registration marks? I've asked on the British militaria forum but so far there is no response but I won't hurt to ask here as well..

[lexington1]

What does such a mark look like? I have a 1742 Pattern Bess from the 18th Reg't (Royal Irish) that is marked WM 3400 on the top of the buttplate tang, and I have wondered why it was on there.

[Steve Collward]

Lexington1,
   As Joe will most likely tell you, your 'Bess marked "WM 3400" would be an Irish Registration marked piece with the "WM" being Westmeath county.

[lexington1]

Great! I always wondered why it was on there. Here is the Bess that it's on. It's not a commercial Bess and has a lock by Jordan, 1746.

[JCKelly]

For what its worth, my blunderbuss has Irish registration marks on barrel.  M F  2878     I do not know what county that is.
 
 

[lexington1]

What is the purpose of these registry markings?

[JCKelly]

Can't say for certain, think it was the English being just a tad uneasy at the thought of armed Irishmen. Wanted to keep track of weapons in Ireland.
At least since Henry VIII.

[Pukka Bundook]

 JC Kelley,

No time to check, but I think that the registration ran from 1843 to 6 or somewhere about there.  (I don't know why I think this.   :-) )

Joe,
I have what is left of an altered 'bess, cut down, re-stocked, with simplified furniture, lock by Henshaw 1793 or 7, I forget.  It is marked for County Clare.

I can check in a few days, but with this shoot coming up I'm swamped!

Long time no talk, my friend!!

Richard.

[Niall]

For what its worth, my blunderbuss has Irish registration marks on barrel.  M F  2878     I do not know what county that is.
 

That reads M E 2878, so it was registered in County Meath....The blunderbuss was a very common weapon in 18th-19th century Ireland

Your barrel has Birmingham proofs.....most Irish made barrels do not have proofs.At the same time a lot of proved barrels were imported to be completed by the Irish gun trade.
I think the lock is marked Thomas which would make it an import

[backsplash75]

Can't say for certain, think it was the English being just a tad uneasy at the thought of armed Irishmen. Wanted to keep track of weapons in Ireland.
At least since Henry VIII.

https://irishconstabulary.com/police-marks-on-firearms-ireland-1843-act-county-c-t1932.html

These marks are to be found stamped on the top of gun barrels of  arms registered under the Arms Act of 1843, County letters followed by a numeral or numerals.
                   
The letters were appointed by the Chief Secretary Ireland.  (These marks are not to be confused with those found on Irish Police arms, with prefix letters C., R.I.C., and R.P., followed by numerals, as these stand for: Constabulary - Royal Irish Constabulary - Revenue Police).
Antrim  = AN
Armagh = AR
Carlow = C-W
Cavan = C-N
Clare = CL
Cork East Riding = E-C
Cork West Riding = W-C
Donegal = D-L
Down = D-N
Dublin = DU
Fermanagh = F
Galway = G
Kerry = KE
Kildare = K-D
Kilkenny = K-K
King's Co = K-S
Leitrim = LE
Limerick = L-K
Londonderry = L-Y
Longford = L-D
Louth = L-H
Mayo = MA
Meath = ME
Monaghan = M-N
Queen's Co = Q
Roscommon = R
Sligo = S
Tipperary North Riding = N-T
Tipperary South Riding = S-T
Tyrone = TY
Waterford = WA
Westmeath = W-M
Wexford = W-X
Wicklow = WI

Cork Borough = C-B
Dublin City = D-C
Kilkenny Borough = K-B
Limerick Borough = L-B
Waterford Borough = W-B
 
Ref - Arms Act Ireland, 1843 (6 and 7 Victoriae Cap., 74)
The Journal of The Arms & Armour Society. Vol. VI, No. 10. June, 1970. (Police Marks on Arms of Irish Provenance by Oliver Snoddy)
Notes: See the illustration of the process of stamping in the Illustrated London News of 16th March,1844.
In all there seem to have been 44 presses at work eventually throughout the country.
   

[backsplash75]

Great! I always wondered why it was on there. Here is the Bess that it's on. It's not a commercial Bess and has a lock by Jordan, 1746.

Do you have any other pics of this one? thanks!

[JV Puleo]

Thanks guys.
Here's the whole story...
The original Irish Volunteer movement began in 1778 when the British government notified the City of Belfast that it could not defend Ireland if the French (who had just declared war on England in support of the Americans) invaded. The result was the enthusiastic creation of hundreds of local volunteer units. London was not happy about this but had no power to stop it. For the most part, these units purchased their own arms. Ketland & Walker exported at least several hundred muskets to Ireland in 1780 and 1781 - obviously in response to the demand for commercial muskets. I am guessing (because I've never seen one or even heard them discussed) that most would have been commercial versions of the short land pattern and that some would have still been around to be marked at the time of the Registration Act in the 1840s.

It is all a long shot. We know they existed but it is such an obscure period of history that it has received very little attention and none, as far as I know, regarding the arms. Generally, the rebellion 10 years later and the failed French invasion of 1798 have distracted most popular historians.

Although there was no invasion, the Volunteer movement quickly took on a political aspect. The existence of nearly 100,000 armed Irishmen who were demanding free trade, reforms to the Irish Parliament and mitigation of the penal laws could not be ignored. The result was a package of legislation known as the Constitution of 1782.

[JV Puleo]

For what its worth, my blunderbuss has Irish registration marks on barrel.  M F  2878     I do not know what county that is.
 
Your barrel has Birmingham proofs.....most Irish made barrels do not have proofs.At the same time a lot of proved barrels were imported to be completed by the Irish gun trade.
I think the lock is marked Thomas which would make it an import

Those are Ordnance Private Proofs - done in London before November of 1804

[lexington1]

Do you have any other pics of this one? thanks!

Here are a couple of shots I have on my computer. I need to take it out and get some good pics of it.

[backsplash75]

thank you for the additional images!