New Nock lock

[Ezra]

Appearance is beautiful

Yes it is.


Ez

[Hudnut]

This one's cock is stopped on the fence.  You can see the stopping surface on the chin, and the slight mark on the fence from repeated impacts.  From the look of the frizzen face, it has been fired quite a bit.  It was finished in September, 1822.

[Bob Roller]

This one's cock is stopped on the fence.  You can see the stopping surface on the chin, and the slight mark on the fence from repeated impacts.  From the look of the frizzen face, it has been fired quite a bit.  It was finished in September, 1822.

That looks like a "low mileage gun"to me and maybe it relies on a powerful
frizzen spring to be a partial brake to the cock.This would,as I see it require
some good case hardening because common sense says a soft,unhardened
flash fence will not last long if the mainspring is robust as it should be for a
good performing lock.
The pistol I saw years ago was pretty well beat up regarding that style of lock.
There is no reason that a stop on the cock,even if it's styled like the one pictured
can't be incorporated in a new lock made with shooters in mind.

Bob Roller

[jerrywh]

Bob I made two locks like that several years ago and case hardened the heck out of the plate and the hammer. I doubt if they have ever been fired though. I think they are in some billionaire's vault now. He tole me he was going to take them to the CLA show but he never did. Can't trust the super rich. I guess their promises to peons don't count much. HUH?

[Bob Roller]

Bob I made two locks like that several years ago and case hardened the heck out of the plate and the hammer. I doubt if they have ever been fired though. I think they are in some billionaire's vault now. He tole me he was going to take them to the CLA show but he never did. Can't trust the super rich. I guess their promises to peons don't count much. HUH?

Jerrywh,
Sometimes not but then unkept promises cross all venues.I have only done one job
for a very wealthy man but he kept his promise. It was MORE than one job but came
in one conversation at Bill Large's years ago.The man wanted one of any and every kind
of lock I made for muzzle loaders and when I got them made,he said he'd be over at
Bill's the next day to get barrels and he was there and I got paid as did Bill.
I did another job for a Canadian that was well off but what he had me make was for
a Duesenberg car he was restoring.Sad to say,he died from multiple Myoloma before
the car was ready.He did get his parts from me and I was well paid.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Appearance is beautiful

Yes it is.


Ez

Today we went to the CLA show in Lexington and I got a good look at that
neat little lock from Liston Rice and I was impressed with it.The fit of parts and
over all quality looks really good. There was a bow in the lower leaf of
the mainspring
 but that is a very thin spring but a powerful one.I would not reject that
lock because of it.It is a cast spring but so are most of the springs by other makers.
It is a lot of lock for the $225 price but In the absence of a better one I think it's
worth it.The frizzen pivots on a threadless pin and the end next to the barrel is
long and can be milled away for an inset breech.A clever idea I think.
I hope this lock is a big success and wish him well in this endeavor.

Bob Roller

[SingleMalt]

I'd love to see a few pics of it.

[G_T]

A strong family resemblance: http://www.sitemason.com/page/iiIFfa

I was looking for original rifles using Henry Nock locks and came across this one. It is slightly fancier than the new Nock Lock but the family resemblence is very strong. With some minor mods, it could be even stronger if one is so inclined.

If someone has links to other originals using Henry Nock locks I'd like to see! This is a very interesting lock from right at the end of the flint era, --- I think ---

I took a bunch of pictures of mine. It will take me a bit to get them posted. I need to transfer, resize, etc.

Gerald

[Ezra]

A strong family resemblance: http://www.sitemason.com/page/iiIFfa

I was looking for original rifles using Henry Nock locks and came across this one. It is slightly fancier than the new Nock Lock but the family resemblence is very strong. With some minor mods, it could be even stronger if one is so inclined.

Lord have mercy, that is a beautiful rifle.


Ez

[G_T]

Quite a nice lock. Not nearly as much required to finish this one as most others I've encountered. It's one of the few I've had my hands on which is actually pretty good right out of the bag.

Gerald

[hen]

On my hobby-horse again, chaps, that cock is totally wrong for an English style lock of that period. Just refer to the link in reply#33 to see how it should look!

[smart dog]

Hi Hen,
You are right although a nice cut molding around the edges will help but the "S" is a bit loose and tall.  Some folks are going to have trouble with the short trigger bar on the sear.  On the one I received, it extends only 1/2" beyond the depth of the lock bolster. That means, even with a 1" diameter barrel at the breech, the trigger has to be mounted right of center. That was not unusual for British guns but it also means that using a larger barrel is going to be a problem particularly if the lock panels flare out toward the butt.  I wonder if the original lock copied came from a double gun or one on which the panels angle inward toward the rear.  The good news is that the locks sparks as well as any original English lock I've experienced.

dave

[G_T]

Note sure if you mean the stirrup by the "S"? Anyway the link I posted above is another Henry Nock lock and it also has a long stirrup. I figure you get unique features when an original is copied or near copied. Those are the features which distinguish it from other locks.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is a very late flint lock from the end of the era of flint locks. I think most rifles from that era would have had relatively narrow barrels? Anyway I checked my lock against a rifle I'm building. It looks to me that a 1" breech would not require offsetting the triggers for set triggers or single. Beyond that you might have to make some acccomodations. But personally I don't have a problem with a 1" max barrel breech in a very late flint rifle. I don't think this lock would be appropriate on an earlier rifle with a fatter barrel. But of course all of you know much more about it than I do!

If you look at the internal pics of the Nock lock in the link I posted a couple posts back, you'll see an original that also has a short sear arm.

I'm assuming most of you don't leave the sear arm of a lock full length anyway? I know I don't! Longer needs a deeper hole and weakens the stock, and probably slows the lock timing down microscopically when triggered with a set trigger.

To each his own of course! I like the lock, so far at least. You may not. There are of course lots of locks to choose from.

Gerald

[smart dog]

Hi,
The lock is from the late 1790s to 1810 so not at the end of the flint era when stepped breeches and "V" pans became common.  If you look through the photos of the lock in the link above you can see the trigger bar on that Nock lock is a bit longer. I prefer a 1 1/16" to 1 1/8" breech on my later English rifles which makes it easier to get the breech architecture right so the triggers will have to be moved well to the right to hit the sear.  It should not have been very difficult for the lock maker to lengthen the sear bar by about 3/16" allowing a lot more flexibility when using the lock. 

dave

[Bob Roller]

My locks usually have a 1"trigger bar and I once made one about 2"
for a bench gun with a wide barrel.
The Nock flint lock that Lynton McKenzie loaned to me about 40 years ago
had a gooseneck cock that stopped on the lock plate at the end of the firing
cycle.The internal pattern I have used for more than 40 years was inspired
 by a John Manton lock owned by a Canadian.Simple and efficient and I think
good looking as well.
Bob Roller

[Eric Kettenburg]

Well since we're all being picky, and I say this with the caveat that these later styled locks aren't really my thing, it looks like a well made lock and I'm sure it functions well.  This being said, I can't stand to look at the frizzen spring.  It looks like an afterthought and like something I'd see on an old dixie lock, especially with the tiny screw head and oversized screw boss.

[Blacksmoke]

I agree with Eric - the frizzen spring has to go !  It should look more like the Wilkinson frizzen spring and How are you supposed to remove the frizzen axcel? I like the over all profile of the lock plate however.   One more thing - when pulling the cock fully back to full cock, does the tension increase or decrease? Dave and Bob will know what I am referring to.    Hugh Toenjes

[smart dog]

Hi Hugh and Eric,
I bought one and received it a few days ago.  The mainspring action is very good and the stirrup and tumbler architecture provide excellent mechanical advantage.  The frizzen and frizzen spring action is about as perfect as you can make and balanced with the mainspring.  Hugh, this lock produces as much spark right in to the pan as any original English lock I've experienced. My issue is that the trigger bar is too short and is going to limit the use of the lock even for the intended use - late flint English guns.  It should make a good pistol lock and a huge improvement in shape over the L&R Bailes or Baby Manton lock.  The appearance of the frizzen spring could be improved if the bend was pinched tighter as you see on most originals with the roller in the spring. The lock also appears to use the old cast mainspring from the L&R Durs Egg lock complete with the slight belly in the lower leaf when at full cock.  Despite that, the springs work very well and the lock sparks better than most of the commercially made locks sold today.  As far as the frizzen axel pin goes, once tension from the frizzen spring is released, the pin pops right out.

dave   

[Elnathan]

It should make a good pistol lock and a huge improvement in shape over the L&R Bailes or Baby Manton lock.

Smart Dog,

What are the dimensions?

[Bob Roller]

So it ain't perfect but it is a work in progress and the gunmakers
ought to be glad it's up and running.

Bob Roller

[Marcruger]

Some photos of the new lock from CLA.  There is a photo included of a photo of an original lock, with the new lock above it.  I hope these prove useful to someone.  God Bless,   Marc

[Frank]

I am not a lock expert but this looks an awful lot like a Chambers’s late Ketland except for the pan. Is this lock appreciably that much better to justify the cost? Maybe for the purists who are looking to precisely reproduce an original gun, this is needed?

[Pukka Bundook]

It looks a decent lock and very nice to hear it sparks well.
If I had my druthers, I'd like to see the half bent position closer to where the full cock position is, and yes, the cock is too open in the 'S'  for an English lock.
I don't mean to pull it apart, but these points and the casual mainspring are a bother to me.

The dropped mainspring is good on these smaller locks, as the maispring has more room to work and clears the barrel better.
(See attachment.)

Bob Roller,

My old locks made about 1815 do not have a beat up fence here the cock contacts.   Marked, yes, but not beat up. The case hardening must have been done right, as my locks have  had the frizzens re-steeled twice at least.
 Very best,
Richard.

[Dennis Glazener]

Some photos of the new lock from CLA.  There is a photo included of a photo of an original lock, with the new lock above it.  I hope these prove useful to someone.  God Bless,   Marc

Is LC (ol lost cause)  involved with this lock? For some reason I thought this was Liston's venture.
Dennis

[Ky-Flinter]

Dennis,

In speaking with LC at the show, I gathered that he and Liston are partners in the venture.

-Ron