Author Topic: Hang Fire (Read 3441 times)

flinter49 · « **on:** June 28, 2019, 04:59:27 PM »

I had a hang fire Sunday that was the worst I have had in my 45 years of shooting muzzleloaders. Granted Sunday was a very humid day even for Illinois, which probably had a lot to do with it. I squeezed the trigger and poof but no bang. I held thru and nothing. Lowered the rifle, still pointed down range, and was wondering now what. What has happened to my most dependable flinter. Then bang. Sure glad I hadn't moved. Made me wonder though, when do you give up and say she just ain't going off.
I most always carry a vent pick and knapping hammer with me. I suppose that would fix 99% of the firing problems. Anyway won't forget this any time soon.

rich pierce · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2019, 05:30:34 PM »

Sure that was scary. Thanks for the reminder! I always pick after a poof (pointing downrange). I’m hoping that would either extinguish any ember or make it go off.

hanshi · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2019, 10:14:19 PM »

I've had more than one hang fire that took its time. I always keep the muzzle pointed at the berm until it fires; either from the hang or another try. Mostly they are only slight hiccups, "clack-bang".

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2019, 04:08:18 AM »

I’ve never had an extended delay hangfire as described. But, I have witnessed them with other shooters. The most common causes are drops of moisture, rain, or sweat, introduced into the powder at loading. This usually is either a drop of rain off your hat brim, or a drop of sweat off your forehead, or nose. Or as I once witnessed at a shoot in Red Bluff, a caterpillar falling off a tree, and down the bore. Exceptionally wet patches lubed with either spit, of moose milk, can do it as well.
I was at a shoot at Marie Hill Ranch one year when such a hangfire happened, ending with the shooter shot in the eye with a .54 and surviving.
I don’t shoot in those conditions anymore, just for this reason.

Hungry Horse

flinter49 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2019, 05:10:32 PM »

Exactly right. Keep the muzzle pointed down range till you get it to go off.

hanshi · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2019, 09:12:13 PM »

Can't recall one that more than about 3 seconds, and that's a loooong hangfire to me. Members of my clan don't sweat, they perspire; and I don't perspire.

Daryl · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2019, 08:46:08 AM »

I don't either, Hanshi - men and horses sweat - ladies perspire.

Mike_StL · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2019, 12:18:34 AM »

Men and horses sweat, ladies glow.

hanshi · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2019, 12:34:12 AM »

Daryl · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2019, 06:13:22 PM »

Over the last 40+ years of shooting black powder, I have seen only a few real hang fires - of 2 to 4 seconds. Every now and then, the
flint or cap-gun will hang slightly, barely distinguishable from slow locks on some production guns. The shooter knows right away if it
'hung' a bit. Really slow hang fires can be extremely dangerous & happens more often with barrel wipers than with people who never
wipe while shooting a course of fire. Yes - experience and technique can and does make a difference, whether the shot goes off cleanly
or not.
Sometimes they hang - IT happens. Safety rules apply and there's nothing to be afraid of. If you see someone doing something stupid,
SPEAK up.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2019, 07:05:14 PM »

The worst example of a hang fire I ever saw was back in 1987. " Hawken " replica of the day, cap lock, with the predominant substitute BP of the time. Probably about 10 sec or so. Humid August day, at a match. Strict adherence to range safety rules , so no real danger, but it sure made everyone think twice about a flash in the pan etc.
Fast forward to a Rendezvous I attended 4 years ago. Organized match, with a range officer. Fellow had a flash in the pan, re primed , then had another. Before anyone could react, he upended the rifle and actually looked down the barrel !!!
Time stopped, the range fell silent.....Range Officer took charge of the rifle, and ordered him to leave the line .
Stupidity takes but a second

Mike from OK · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2019, 09:03:25 PM »

Quote from: bob in the woods on August 05, 2019, 07:05:14 PM

... Before anyone could react, he upended the rifle and actually looked down the barrel !!!

Mike

WadePatton · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2019, 03:32:06 AM »

Quote from: bob in the woods on August 05, 2019, 07:05:14 PM

...
Fast forward to a Rendezvous I attended 4 years ago. Organized match, with a range officer. Fellow had a flash in the pan, re primed , then had another. Before anyone could react, he upended the rifle and actually looked down the barrel !!!
...

Darwin foiled again!

I jest but it's stuff like that that makes me extremely particular whom I shoot alongside. If a person has zero regard for his own safety, he darn sure won't have much for mine or anyone else in the vicinity. I hope he learned something.

thecapgunkid · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2019, 12:14:31 AM »

Scary. Glad you handled it well.

flinter49 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2019, 05:17:24 PM »

Yep Daryl that's my point. I have been shooting black powder for forty plus years also, flintlocks almost exclusively since 1982 , shot in many matches( including Friendship) back in the day, and have not seen anything like this hang fire. I have Siler and L & R locks only no cheap foreign lock.
I used a vent pick so there wasn't any crud from lack of cleaning. I believe it was the heat and humidity that moisten the priming powder at the touch hole before I got the shot of. I had taken aim, didn't like my sight picture, let the rifle down for a moment, brought it back up and fired.

Dave A · « **Reply #15 on:** August 08, 2019, 02:21:43 PM »

"Really slow hang fires can be extremely dangerous & happens more often with barrel wipers than with people who never
wipe while shooting a course of fire."

-----------------

I'm not advocating wiping, but that comment is nonsense. How would removing fouling Increase the incident of hangfire?

R.J.Bruce · « **Reply #16 on:** August 08, 2019, 09:41:59 PM »

Anytime a shooter cleans between shots there is the potential of pushing fouling ahead of the cleaning patch/ jag combo.

The fouling can collect against the face of the breechplug, or be pushed into the touch hole.

I am not an advocate for cleaning between shots. I will never be a bench, or match shooter. All of my shooting in the past has been to replicate how I thought the frontiersman of the past MUST have shot their rifles in everyday life.

They say that GOD takes care of fools and children. When I shot that Golden Age Arms Co., Douglas barreled flintlock longrifle at age 17 for the first time I inadvertently came up with a ball diameter, patch thickness, and lubricant that follows what Daryl has recommended here so many times.

It allowed me to shoot without having to clean between shots. I believe the longest string of shots I had in those days was maybe 20-25 shots. The last shot loaded only slightly harder than the first one.

R.J.Bruce

P.S.
I blew down the barrel to push the smoke out of the touch hole. By watching the smoke flow out of the touch hole I was able to determine when to pick. I settled on picking at every second shot as a routine.

In the 1970's this was acceptable behavior, and it served me well for decades.

I had several hangfires in those days. All were resolved by keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and waiting for the rifle to eventually fire.

Only two, that I recall, required picking the touch hole, wiping the pan, repriming, and shooting a second time.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #17 on:** August 08, 2019, 10:51:49 PM »

Quote from: bob in the woods on August 05, 2019, 07:05:14 PM

The worst example of a hang fire I ever saw was back in 1987. " Hawken " replica of the day, cap lock, with the predominant substitute BP of the time. Probably about 10 sec or so. Humid August day, at a match. Strict adherence to range safety rules , so no real danger, but it sure made everyone think twice about a flash in the pan etc.
Fast forward to a Rendezvous I attended 4 years ago. Organized match, with a range officer. Fellow had a flash in the pan, re primed , then had another. Before anyone could react, he upended the rifle and actually looked down the barrel !!!
Time stopped, the range fell silent.....Range Officer took charge of the rifle, and ordered him to leave the line .
Stupidity takes but a second

That scared me just reading it.

Dave A · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2019, 11:33:15 PM »

Quote from: R.J.Bruce on August 08, 2019, 09:41:59 PM

Anytime a shooter cleans between shots there is the potential of pushing fouling ahead of the cleaning patch/ jag combo.

The fouling can collect against the face of the breechplug, or be pushed into the touch hole.
-------------------

Right- but the same exact thing is done without wiping- you are pushing fouling back down every time. Surely if you don't wipe, you must have noticed your ramrod slowly creeps upward as you continued shooting- that of course is fouling gradually building up. If you swab with 1 patch every shot or every five shots you will not see that happening.

I don't normally wipe between shots either- but to say it happens "more often" with people who wipe is ridiculous- where are all of the "hang fires with benchrest shooters?

You could say it might happen more with those that don't wipe CORRECTLY- but that's a whole different thing- and certainly shouldn't be used as an indictment against wiping.

Daryl · « **Reply #19 on:** August 09, 2019, 12:09:47 AM »

I agree whole heartedly, that if shooting without wiping, that over the course of the day, the rod does 'climb' with the buildup of fouling in the breech area.
With no wiping, the fouling that does coat that powder-chamber-area of the breech does build up over a number of shots - as in about 1/4" over 30 shots
or so, depending on the calibre and amount of powder used.
The fouling does not build up because of the previous shot's fouling being pushed down as it is loaded, though. To state that, I think is incorrect, I think. That
previous shot's fouling is shot out with the patched ball. There is no ring of fouling in my bores after shooting the trail, whether 20 shots, 40 or 90 (long day of shooting).

Oft times, I will drop a squib load down after a long string of shots, say 20gr. in my .69 or 10 to 15gr. in the .50. When I load that patched ball, there is no fouling ring
to have to push past . That ball loads almost normally, right down on top of the powder. There is extra fouling there in the powder chamber area, but not a ring of it. If
there was, it would be felt. The reason for shooting that squib load, is to remove most of the fouling from the breech area, thus there is only a small amount there, plus
what is left in the bore from that 'squib' shot. It's also fun to shoot at the 25yard gong at the start of the trail and hear a low, soft "pop or pow-----------tink".(clank with
the .69's 480gr. ball)

hanshi · « **Reply #20 on:** August 09, 2019, 12:32:05 AM »

As a "non wiper" I notice there is normally very little buildup of fouling in the breech. If there is some buildup I run a scraper down for a twist or two; all it usually takes. One rifle - a favorite wouldn't ya' know - does form a "crud ring" occasionally depending on number of shots. But these rings are easily removed if they cause any problems. It has also been my experience that humidity has some effect on the formation. Liquid lubes seem to clean a bit better over the course of an afternoon, for me at any rate. Any resulting "hang fire" is almost always of the clack/bang variety, barely noticeable.

Dave A · « **Reply #21 on:** August 09, 2019, 12:45:36 AM »

Daryl- were talking about two different things here. My comment was that It is completely misleading to say that those that wipe between shots are prone to more hangfires- simply isn't true. I've also noticed that just as many shooters who don't wipe pick there vents just as much as those that do- that is telling.

I know it's currently frowned upon, but blowing down your barrel between shots certainly tells you more about the state of your touch-hole/breech area than anything else.

Were pretty much in agreement about not wiping though- can't see the need for general shooting at least- but your last statement is a bit off- the ramrod does climb slightly without wiping- we both agree, that is simply fouling building up. The previous shots fouling is not all being shot out- otherwise the ramrod wouldn't be rising. The fouling along much of the bore is pushed down, and possibly shot out, but the fouling is building along powder column, and that's not getting shot out.

I don't really feel a ring either when continuous shooting, but I always notice when cleaning there is a lot more resistance for the jag the last 5 inches or so, which you don't see with regular wiping.

One thing that is certain with muzzleloading, is that everyone wipes sooner or later though!

MuskratMike · « **Reply #22 on:** August 09, 2019, 05:17:45 AM »

As to "blowing down the barrel" I always have and always will. I know it is not approved but come on. If I know I just fired my rifle and saw the target swing or go "gong" I know the shot did take place. Blowing down the barrel not only shows if the vent is clear but the moist breath "softens" the fouling and allows easier loading. Go to a B.P.C.R shoot every one blows after every shot. Yes I know they use a blow tube but in muzzleloading I will never buy the idea that your shot didn't take place and it was you neighbor that fired. So if I know the shot took place there is no harm in blowing down the barrel as long as you do it right after shooting. By the time you get ready to reload any ember that might still be there is no longer glowing.
OK start lining up to tell me how wrong I am. I am watching. By the way if you think I am wrong give me a real reason why.

retired fella · « **Reply #23 on:** August 09, 2019, 05:26:26 AM »

I'm with you Mike. Been blowin' down the barrel for years. Love the taste also.

MuskratMike · « **Reply #24 on:** August 09, 2019, 05:36:38 AM »

Thanks. I am only 67 years old and have been shooting all my life. Firing "front stuffers" since the 70's putting thousands of balls down range and still go to the range twice a week and shoot at two club shoots every month and summer "Rondys" and of course hunting deer, elk and bear. Don't see a reason to quit blowing down the barrel or need people saying I can't do it with no valid reason behind it.

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Author Topic: Hang Fire (Read 3441 times)