Author Topic: Left hand vs right hand carry?  (Read 1022 times)

Offline Mark Elliott

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Left hand vs right hand carry?
« on: June 23, 2019, 12:02:16 AM »
Most of the powder horns I have made have been right hand carry.  I can only remember ever making two left hand carry horns.   The problem I have is that I am down to mostly left hand carry horns in my inventory.   What do you all think; am I wasting my time to turn those into powder horns or should I find something else to do with them?   
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 04:20:44 AM by Mark Elliott »

Offline Gun_Nut_73

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2019, 01:49:05 AM »
I know I am showing my ignorance here, but I will continue, anyway.

I understand that left and right horns curve towards each other, but couldn't a left side horn be rotated to fit on the right side?  Would the orientation of the staple help achieve this?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2019, 02:29:44 AM »
So far as carry is concerned, I think the goal is to not have a horn where the spout end juts out and snags on stuff.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2019, 02:41:47 AM »
If you have a single curve through the horizontal plane,  a horn can be either right or left hand carry; the horn just points up.  However,  if there is an "S" curve (usually very slight) through the vertical plane, then it will fit better one way or the other.   Actually, in my experience,  a proper carry has the tip pointing away from you slightly, not into your side.   I generally orient the horn so the the tip points up and lays flat against your body.   

Here is what I have called a left hand carry horn.   Traditionally, it would be a right hand carry horn.



Here is what I have called a right hand carry horn.   Traditionally, it would be a left hand carry horn.




« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 11:15:17 PM by Mark Elliott »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2019, 02:55:12 AM »
Iíve been happily doing it backwards all these years.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2019, 03:55:18 AM »
Iíve been happily doing it backwards all these years.

I think that is how folks do it. Powderhorns and More lists its horns as right or left defined so that the tip curves into the body. I'm working on a horn that will curve away from my body, as per Mark's definitions, and thought I was doing something quite different from normal practice...

So there is your answer, Mark. Make 'em into right-hand carry horns.
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2019, 04:19:26 AM »
Well, now I am confused.   Is my terminology/definition right or wrong?   

Let's change the question.   Which of the pictures above is actually a left hand carry and which is actually a right hand carry?   

I always went by the curve closest to the base plug. 

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2019, 06:10:40 AM »
Hi Mark,

My friendly advice would be to go ahead and build up those waiting "left hand" horns.

For one thing, many folks carry horns on their left.  I do. 

Second, make up a pile of finished horns, and put them on a table.  Ask folks passing to sort left and right. You'll start a great disturbance.   ;-)   There will be no agreement. 

My taste is for a horn with no twist, but those are harder to find. 

I'd have called that first horn a right-hand horn, but what do I know?  I will allow that is a gorgeous horn.  I love the color of the tip and band working in concert with the horn color. 

So.....to sum up.....I am not sure there will be any agreement at all on what is right or left carry.  The good news is make them up, and someone will buy them.  When a buyer picks one up and loves it, just nod and smile. 

God Bless,   Marc

Offline John Proud

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2019, 03:34:29 PM »
Mark,

Too many years ago to exactly recall, Lee Larkin wrote a article for the Horn Guild news letter on this issue of right and left side horns. Caused a lot of conversation among Guild members for quite some time. He examined old horns published in several books and determined which side they were worn on by the engraving and/or wear pattern.

As I recall, about 90% of the horns from the right side of the cow were actually set up and engraved or worn on the right side. While about 80% of left side horns were engraved or worn on the left side. If you think about the engraving on a horn set up for the right side will be "backwards" if worn of the left and vice versa.

My take away on this is that just like in times past, you can set up and wear your horn any way you like. if I make a horn for someone, I ask which side they plan to wear it on and set it up accordingly. If is a made up horn on my table, I encourage them to try it for "fit".

The pictures are labeled correctly for carry side, but incorrectly for the side of the cow they came off! Confusing isn't it! Times have changed. Now we like our horns about the opposite of the usage patter that Lee found on historic horns.

Nice work as always Mark.

John

Online iloco

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2019, 03:44:17 PM »
So far as carry is concerned, I think the goal is to not have a horn where the spout end juts out and snags on stuff.
  I agree.
iloco

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2019, 04:10:14 PM »
Mark,

Too many years ago to exactly recall, Lee Larkin wrote a article for the Horn Guild news letter on this issue of right and left side horns. Caused a lot of conversation among Guild members for quite some time. He examined old horns published in several books and determined which side they were worn on by the engraving and/or wear pattern.

As I recall, about 90% of the horns from the right side of the cow were actually set up and engraved or worn on the right side. While about 80% of left side horns were engraved or worn on the left side. If you think about the engraving on a horn set up for the right side will be "backwards" if worn of the left and vice versa.

My take away on this is that just like in times past, you can set up and wear your horn any way you like. if I make a horn for someone, I ask which side they plan to wear it on and set it up accordingly. If is a made up horn on my table, I encourage them to try it for "fit".

The pictures are labeled correctly for carry side, but incorrectly for the side of the cow they came off! Confusing isn't it! Times have changed. Now we like our horns about the opposite of the usage patter that Lee found on historic horns.

Nice work as always Mark.

John

Thanks John,  You have provided a little more clarity.   It think I will set the horns up the way I feel they fit the best and build what I have.   

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2019, 06:26:43 PM »
Hi Mark,  I no longer make horns but did for several years. I was finding a better selection of horns that would fit the left side of my torso. I suspect that the majority of builders were making preference to the right side fit.

Personaly I like having my bag carried on my right and horn on the left. Consequently most of my collection of Powder Horns are left side carry. As John suggests, encourage your customer to have an open mind about how they would like to carry a horn. 

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2019, 07:20:22 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.   I think, as much as possible,  I will build so that a horn can be carried either way and let the customer decide. 

Offline FDR

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2019, 07:53:29 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.   I think, as much as possible,  I will build so that a horn can be carried either way and let the customer decide.
Smart use of resources! Although I am right handed I have carried my horn and bag on the left side for over 60 years. I have never not been able to load my gun carrying this way so it works well for me. My grandfather looked at me one time and said "boy you chop left handed". Might have something to do with my preference for horn/bag carry.


Fred

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2019, 08:44:44 PM »
In 2007, at Dixon's Gunmaker's Fayre, I bought a nice raw horn from Lee Larkin's big pile of horns.  The horn I picked came from the left side of the cow's head.  I asked Lee about it, and he told me, "horns from the left side are left hand carry, and visaversa."  I said, do you think so? and he said, "I know so!".  So I wear that horn on my left side, and it works perfectly for that side carry. 



« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 08:51:29 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
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Offline Top Jaw

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2019, 08:53:12 PM »
 As noted already, Horn and bag wearing sides are ďextremelyĒ subjective, a matter of personal taste, and somewhat controversial. That being said, the first horn in your pictures is what most people would call a right side carry in our current era (and among most bag makers buying finished horns) with the tip pointing in to the body.  Itís probably the most sought after version in my experience making horns, but not by a huge margin.  So if these are what you mostly have, I think you have the most desirable twist.  But I agree with your take Mark.  Build one that can be carried either way if possible, and let the buyer decide how they will wear it, or what they prefer with the tip up, or curving into the body.  If they are well done horns like most of yours Iíve seen, either version will sell.

Brian

Offline aaronc

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2019, 12:08:19 AM »
So far as carry is concerned, I think the goal is to not have a horn where the spout end juts out and snags on stuff.

This is my $.02 as well.... although folks seem to prefer right hand carry horns when buying raw horns for projects, I guess they sell better,..I dont know. To my liking I would say 90%of the raw horns I pick up could be comfortably worn on either side....at least by me. Only a few really seem out of place on one side of the other due to the tip really sticking out.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2019, 03:18:59 AM »
It's been a long time since I carried a large horn.  But as I recall it was worn on the right side.  Since then I've attached day horns to the bag straps and worn it all on the right.  I really never needed or owned horns with complex curves or horns from the left side of the cattle.  As long as the tip doesn't poke me in the side I figure it's on the correct side.
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Offline Tanselman

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2019, 07:34:06 AM »
I have handled a very large number of Tansel powder horns over the years. The "left hand" and "right hand" carry horns are immediately obvious by the orientation of the central federal eagle. Of the early horns made in Kentucky, those by Francis Tansel are almost all right hand horns, both in physical characteristics and engraving. The early horns by son John seemed to follow the pattern, but as he got into the mid-1820s, he made a few left hand horns. They were physically a left hand horn and engraved to be worn as such. One interesting Tansel horn is the fine "Garret Wall" horn by Francis Tansel made for use in the War of 1812. It is a very large horn, heavily decorated, but has two eagles, one for a right hand carry, and the other positioned for a left hand carry. Apparently he was covering all bases on this large, almost storage sized, horn.

After the Tansels moved to Indiana, the sons John, Stark and Timothy continued to carve horns [father Francis stopped carving in the early 1820s], but the left hand/right hand issue slowly became less important. Early Indiana horns were generally right hand carry horns, with a couple of rare examples of left hand carry horns. But by the 1840s the Tansel sons had started using left hand horns at times and carving them for a right hand carry. Obviously, the horn had to be rotated 90+ degrees to make it work on the right side...and that's exactly what they did. Horns from 1844 and later seemed to still prefer right hand horns for right hand carry, but a significant number were left hand horns that were rotated and carved for right hand carry...as if the physical side of the cow's head didn't matter nearly as much any more. Left handed horns for left side carry were made, but not very often. The number of later left handed horns carved for a right hand carry is significant, and probably done when a good right hand horn wasn't immediately available.  Shelby Gallien

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2019, 12:11:29 AM »
IfHere is what I have called a left hand carry horn.   Traditionally, it would be a right hand carry horn.



Here is what I have called a right hand carry horn.   Traditionally, it would be a left hand carry horn.



 Mark, I would agree with your pix rt-lt carry. I don't pay any attention to it when making a horn. I just grab a horn, look it over and work it like I think it fits, Plain, S Banded, early Philly, Late Philly, New England, Pa Screw tip, Va., etc...
 I try and buy horns in hand so I can see all the details, curve, twist, shape, thickness, etc...
 You will never pin down a definite carry side all of us being different. Make'm and put them out there they will sell.

  Tim 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 06:05:00 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline Dan Fruth

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2019, 07:13:31 AM »
If you happen to have a copy of Art Decamp's book "Horns of the Trade", you will see most horns were carried on the right side, whether they came from the left or right side of the steers head. I believe the left horn carried on the right side will put the spout against the belly, but if the plug comes out you will loose powder. BUT, if the right horn is worn on the right side, the spout will stick up and if the plug comes out, you won't loose your powder. If that makes sense.
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Offline bigsmoke

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2019, 05:34:02 PM »
Hmmmm... late to the party, but I guess it's still going on.
Generally speaking, when making a powder horn, I never really cared about what the carry side was, I would just select a dozen horns, put them on the bench and start working them.  The only time this varied was when I was making a horn for a specific order.  Amazingly enough, they all sold and I really never had an inventory of powder horns to speak of.  Optimistically speaking, I recall one time that I took several boxes and labeled each of them according to size and style and put them on shelves.  The idea being to be able to get an order, go to the shelves and pick a horn corresponding to what was needed.  Hah!  Was that ever overly optimistic.  I wound up never having horns on hand that would fill the order.  So, I did away with those boxes and used the space for better purposes.  IIRC, we wound up keeping coffee and cleaning supplies and other misc items there.  It was a good thought, anyway.  Bottom line here is that right and left side horns all sell, as long as the work you do on them is sellable.  Enjoy !!!  And by the way, your horns pictured look really great!!!
John

Offline trentOH

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Re: Left hand vs right hand carry?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2019, 06:12:29 AM »
There are of course other things to make than powder horns. I'm surprised how rarely I see ear horns for sale, in use, or displayed at events. And I would think that a shoe horn would be functional and fairly unique these days.