Double Hook Breech for Octagon Barrel Combo Gun - Finished!

[Curtis]

Started on this project a couple of days ago for a friend.  We didn't agree on a price for the job, I just told him we would "work it out" in trade or something.  He should have pinned me down on that, his mistake!!!    Just pokin' fun as I'm sure he will see this post and can chime in if he wants...  I am almost finished, the project will take about a 1-1/2 lazy days in the shop.  Perhaps I should ding him for an air conditioner, it has been hot and humid here as of late. 

He was kind enough make some plugs for the barrels and epoxy the barrels together.  Not sure what the plugs were fashioned from.  First steps were to even up the plugs a bit while shortening the length, then true the top and bottom of the barrels up a bit.













Started cutting the "hooks" on top, I was nice so I angled the saw away from the rear face of the barrel to prevent marring them.











Next came some filing and gauging with the angle iron that will provide the face of the breech:







The angle iron was marked a little wide and cut with a hacksaw, also a pic adding a few drops of oil to the cut:







Shaping the bottom of the hooks:





I cleaned up the angle iron and TIG welded on an extension for the tang, then scribed the breech face to mark for initial drilling:







Cleaned up and trued the hooks a bit more with files:





Then started the process of drilling, filing and chiseling the holes:







Once the holes are close, the fitting process begins.  When REALLY close, the breech is basically swaged on with a hammer.









Then fine tuned with a file:



The smooth bore barrel was a bit longer than the rifled, so I used my handy barrel facing tool to even them up.  The tool fits over a brass ramrod and is piloted with a jag covered by an oiled patch.  Then I cleaned up the faces with files.  I will leave the crowning to the owner, I don't want to be blamed for poor accuracy. 







Now it's time to try and make the false breech look more like a breech should look.  And yes, you can cut a curve with a hacksaw:











Got more done, but it's late and will post more when I finish up - Hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks for looking, Curtis

[Rolf]

Thank you for posting. Impressiv work and interesting Project. Have a couple of questions.

1. What size an caliber are the barrels?

2) Are the going to be solderd together or will he only be using epoxy?


Best regards
Rolf

[T*O*F]

1. What size an caliber are the barrels?

3/4"  .40 caliber 38" long Rayl barrels

2) Are the going to be solderd together or will he only be using epoxy?

Neither.  The barrels will be individually removable.  The gun will be a flint Bedford loosely patterned after Peter White and some others.  Instead of having dual tangs, I opted for the hooked breech.

[Mike Brooks]

You seem to enjoy incredibly difficult jobs and are very good at them. You couldn't pay me enough for a job like that, I'd botch it anyway.

[snapper]

Curtis

We are expecting great things from you and you don’t disappoint


I put a window air conditioner in my shop a few years ago.  One of my best things I put in the shop


Fleener

[David Rase]

Wow, who would of thought you could make breech plugs out of rail road spikes.    Just kidding Curtis.  Incredible work.  I recently breeched up a set of 20g shotgun barrels for a project, plugs and standing breech.  During the making of the plugs and tang I thought to myself, never again.  Enough time has elapsed  that I might consider doing another set.  Great job as well as great documentation of the process.  Retirement is treating you well it looks like.
David

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Great work and great post, Curtis!! I love seeing how you go about creating parts and especially getting the closetolerances!!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Curtis:  you are to be commended for first, undertaking the job, and second, documenting it for the world to view.  This is the sort of selflessness that shows all of us that stepping out on the precipice can produce remarkable things.  Kudos to you!!

[WKevinD]

I am following this, I have the same barrels and have been trying to come up with ideas.

Kevin

[Curtis]

Thanks for all your encouraging words guys.  It makes posting the process worthwhile when you now someone else can appreciate the kind of stuff we like to do.

Didn't get much shop time in today, heated the tang and bent it to the profile provided by TOF, and let it cool slowly in a bucket of wood ashes.  With luck that will normalize the steel from the welding process, though when I cut through the welded area I didn't notice any hard spots it can't hurt anything.

It will be a few of days before I get any more photos posted.  I will be blessed with the company of two of my young grandsons for a couple of days and will more likely shooting squirt guns and roasting marshmallows than brandishing a file. 

Curtis

[Tim Crosby]

 Really neat, you are warring me out with all the filing, not to mention the hacksaw work. Look forward to the next set of PIX and to seeing the finished rifle, is that where you take over Dave?

  Tim

[L. Akers]

Great tutorial Curtis.  I especially got a kick out of your description of "final fitting" done by bashing it on!  I got the kick because that is the way I do it.  I made one standing breech of angle iron and then discovered split I-beam.  I use 4" wide x 1-1/2" tall beam.  The vertical portion has a vertical face and a tapered rear face and the web is wide enough to accommodate most tangs--eliminates welding which I can't do.

[Craig Wilcox]

Great job, Curtiss - satisfied my "learning something every day" for today.
Pretty good size angle iron - is it 3/8" or 1/4"?  Seems to be good honest steel also.
I think Dave should be well satisfied with your work.

[jerrywh]

Curtis. This is what I call a French breech style.  Nice job. I think I like the way the barrels are epoxied together. Are you going to put a rib on the barrels. Epoxy is good in some ways but presents a problem in some cases.

[Curtis]

Jerry, I am making the breech for Dave Kanger, he temporarily epoxied the barrels together to make it easier to fit the breech.  I think there will be no rib, he is wanting the barrels to be independently removable from the gun.

Tim, I must be a sick person, I actually enjoy the hacksawing!  Dave will be taking over the build when the barrels are fitted and ready.

L. Akers, bashing for final fit is definately the way to go, in my experience it provides a much tighter fit than even careful filing.

Curtis

[Daryl]

Independent barrels will be interesting indeed.

[Tim Crosby]

Independent barrels will be interesting indeed.

 Yes, look forward to seeing that. TC

[Curtis]

Finally got back in the shop today and finished up the breech.  Here is a small cold chisel I made from a broken Swiss made needle file, it hold and edge very well and is great for detail work in small areas.  Also cuts amazingly well.







formula aluminum sulfate

Due to a lack of communication (I.E. me not asking enough questions) I had originally assumed that the barrels would be soldered together.  The barrels hooked into the breech nice and solid as a pair, however when Dave mentioned they would be independent of each other I wanted to insure they would solidly stay in place when NOT joined.  So I cut a couple of small wedges from scrap steel and silver braised them in place to increase the hook face bearing surface.







After a little filing of the new additions for fit I checked the tang curvature against the profile Dave provided.  I think it is close enough that he can make it work:





Lastly I super-glued the breech on and filed the it down to match the barrel shapes.  Here is the finished product, Dave will do the final shaping of the tang area to suit his build:









Thanks for looking,
Curtis

[Tim Crosby]

 Man, that looks nice and clean, Very well done. Look forward to seeing the project advance.

    Tim

[snapper]

Alright Dave, it is up to you to get this project going!

Fleener

[Bob Roller]

You seem to enjoy incredibly difficult jobs and are very good at them. You couldn't pay me enough for a job like that, I'd botch it anyway.

I support Mike Brooks opinion.I also would make a total loss of all of it.
The rat tail file cuts on those hooks show a rare level of skill.I have a
rat tail file but it has a flat ground the full length to establish a safe edge.
Please keep us in the "loop"on this great project.I am NOT a gun make
but I do appreciate this high level of skill and dedication.

Bob Roller

[Mike Brooks]

Glad that's over, I'm all wore out.....

[T*O*F]

These are the breech plugs that we started with.  I cut them off as indicated by the lines and breeched the barrels before sending them to Curtis.  These are vintage plugs and I don't know if they are available anymore, but I have a good supply.  Notice the spaces at either end of the threads.  This will be important when I explain my breeching procedure a bit later.


This is the maple that I will be using for the stock.  It is 50+ years old and harder than Dick's WWII helmet.  I also figure that the thick wrist of the Bedford profile will better support two barrels without future cracking problems as you see in so many double guns.


Almost all of the Bedfords I looked at had a pointed, spiky shaped tang.  I will reshape this one to reflect that.  Curtis left me plenty of metal to play with.  Looking at Peter White's rifles, I notice that he didn't use the traditional skinny Bedford locks.  I will be using small Mantons since they are available in both R & L.  Overlapping sears will allow the use of a single trigger that will fire whichever lock is cocked.

[Scota4570]

Nice work.

I did shotgun a long time ago.  I have wanted to do a rifle. 

A stumbling block is the rib.  Do you have a source for a rib for octagon barrels?

IF not how to make one?  Square stock, milled after installing on the barrels?  How does it get matted? 

Solid rib + untapered barrels, won't this get awfully heavy. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Ribs for joining barrels are made of rather thin sheet metal.  They are tinned first, and soft soldered to the barrels in unison.