Author Topic: There is a light at the end of the tunnel (Read 3830 times)

David Rase · « **on:** July 13, 2019, 07:23:57 AM »

Took an order for a double barrel flintlock shotgun a couple of years ago. Due to various set backs and other priorities, this project never really got off top dead center until about a month ago. Here are some in the white photos of the gun. If all goes as planned, I will spend the better part of next week pushing a file and polishing metal parts along with final stock shaping. It has been an interesting endeavor, frustrating along the way and then richly rewarding at other times. This is a down and dirty gun made for a client that just wanted a double flint gun to hunt birds with. No engraving, no checkering, just functional. I agreed to the project as I thought it would be a good learning experience or a future higher end London double I would like to make. It worked, I have a head full of knowledge and a passion to do a "best" grade gun soon. Enjoy. I will post completed photos hopefully in a couple of weeks.
David

Curtis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2019, 08:01:55 AM »

S-W-E-E-T!!!!!! Lookin' good David!

Curtis

Chowmi · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2019, 08:08:32 AM »

Yes indeed, that is SWEET!

I reckon that is a bucket list sort of build. Glad you have the opportunity to build a plain one in preparation for the fancy one!

I've always fancied a double fainter.

Cheers,
Norm

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2019, 12:49:28 PM »

Oh Boy, do I like the looks of that one. Is there a second trigger in there?

Tim

FALout · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2019, 01:11:59 PM »

If you look closely at the first two pics you can see the second trigger. For such a plain shotgun, the lines look right. I like doubles, I’ve built several from kits years ago, but they were all percussions, would really like to build a flinter. Can you post a pic looking down on the locks and the wrist?

smart dog · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2019, 01:29:00 PM »

Hi Dave,
Wonderful! That will be a beauty when done. I wish we had a better choice of locks for projects like that.

dave

TommyG · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2019, 02:59:00 PM »

That is one great looking double. I like the fact that it is not embellished but simple. Great looking gun!

J Henry · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2019, 03:23:57 PM »

Light at the end of the tunnel !!!! Could be a train coming !!!

Bob Roller · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2019, 04:52:02 PM »

Quote from: J Henry on July 13, 2019, 03:23:57 PM

Light at the end of the tunnel !!!! Could be a train coming !!!

I hope it ain't that Big Boy featured here yesterday

Bob Roller

David Rase · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2019, 07:52:56 PM »

Quote from: Tim Crosby on July 13, 2019, 12:49:28 PM

Oh Boy, do I like the looks of that one. Is there a second trigger in there?

Tim

Tim,
Here is a side profile showing the triggers. Good observation as Manton made a couple of over/under pistols that were designed to fire with only one trigger.
David

David Rase · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2019, 07:55:42 PM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on July 13, 2019, 04:52:02 PM

Quote from: J Henry on July 13, 2019, 03:23:57 PM
Light at the end of the tunnel !!!! Could be a train coming !!!

I hope it ain't that Big Boy featured here yesterday
Bob Roller

It felt like I was up against a train when I first started breeching the barrels and making the standing breech. I think the barrel work took about as much time as stocking the gun. Next one should be a breeze.

David

Ezra · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2019, 08:42:04 PM »

Wow, for me anyway, that is a build beyond my current skills. Still, a fascinating build from the technical perspective. Lock(s), barrel(s) inletting, triggers...yeah, that is quite a job. Very nice work Dave.

So the left side lock-plate acts as a “sideplate”?

Ez

Dowrat · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2019, 10:52:33 PM »

I like that a lot! Are those John Bailes (small Manton) locks?

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2019, 11:07:17 PM »

I wondered I just couldn't see it. Man that thing looks sleek and clean, love the lines.

Tim

smart dog · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2019, 12:33:29 AM »

Hi Dave,
It is going to be a great gun and second only to the really fancy gun you will eventually build. I mentioned the locks in my previous post and your new photos offer a good example of why I wish we had more choices for these doubles. The L&R Bailes, Manton, baby Manton, whatever you want to call it has a curve on the bottom of the plate. This requires you to either tip the tail of the plate down or have the front angled downward slightly like it appears on your double. This means you inevitably end up with a funky knuckle around the front of the lock that interferes with the clean lines. When you look at a nice John or Joe Manton double, the stock has a clean smooth taper on the bottom from the triggers to the rear ramrod pipe. Hopefully, the photo below of a Joe Manton double shows what I am describing.

dave

David Rase · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2019, 01:49:06 AM »

Quote from: smart dog on July 14, 2019, 12:33:29 AM

Hi Dave,
It is going to be a great gun and second only to the really fancy gun you will eventually build. I mentioned the locks in my previous post and your new photos offer a good example of why I wish we had more choices for these doubles. The L&R Bailes, Manton, baby Manton, whatever you want to call it has a curve on the bottom of the plate. This requires you to either tip the tail of the plate down or have the front angled downward slightly like it appears on your double. This means you inevitably end up with a funky knuckle around the front of the lock that interferes with the clean lines. When you look at a nice John or Joe Manton double, the stock has a clean smooth taper on the bottom from the triggers to the rear ramrod pipe. Hopefully, the photo below of a Joe Manton double shows what I am describing.
dave

Dave,
You are so correct on the curve on the underside of the L&R Bailes locks posing an eyesore. Fortunately, I have both TRS Manton V-pan as well as later Manton lock sets. I can afford the time to assemble the correct locks for my personal fowler. By the time a competent builder with the necessary skills and equipment invests his time into barrels, lock assembly, stocking the fowler and embellishments such as engraving, case hardenin etc. a client who has no idea of what is involved to build a high end fowler would more than likely pass out from sticker shock.
Thanks for seeing this build for what it is and not being too critical. When I undertake my next fowler, I will solicit you expertise and critical eye.
David

P.Bigham · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2019, 02:47:26 AM »

I haven't seen much that you couldn't accomplish. I like it the customer should be proud. I would be.

J. Talbert · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2019, 02:53:05 AM »

David,
Looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing the engraving bring that trigger guard to life.

Gonna be sweet!

Jeff

David Rase · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2019, 04:26:18 AM »

Quote from: J. Talbert on July 14, 2019, 02:53:05 AM

David,
Looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing the engraving bring that trigger guard to life.

Gonna be sweet!

Jeff

There are no plans at this time for this gun to get engraved or checkered. The owner wanted a working flintlock double to hunt with. The price we agreed upon did not include any frills. You will have to stay tuned for my follow up personal gun that will be more high end.
David

David Rase · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2019, 04:29:14 AM »

Quote from: Dowrat on July 13, 2019, 10:52:33 PM

I like that a lot! Are those John Bailes (small Manton) locks?

Yes they are. Not the best choice for a double gun but the closest locks available that I know of without building locks from Rifle Shoppe or Blackley castings which would add another grand to the price of the project.
David

J. Talbert · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2019, 04:54:35 AM »

Quote from: David Rase on July 14, 2019, 04:26:18 AM

Quote from: J. Talbert on July 14, 2019, 02:53:05 AM
David,
Looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing the engraving bring that trigger guard to life.

Gonna be sweet!

Jeff
There are no plans at this time for this gun to get engraved or checkered. The owner wanted a working flintlock double to hunt with. The price we agreed upon did not include any frills. You will have to stay tuned for my follow up personal gun that will be more high end.
David

Boomer

Bull Shannon · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2019, 11:17:09 AM »

I'm looking forward to seeing that finished myself. The stock wood looks to have some interesting figure to it so what are the plans for the type and color finish in store for it?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2019, 01:37:50 PM »

Quote from: David Rase on July 14, 2019, 01:49:06 AM

Quote from: smart dog on July 14, 2019, 12:33:29 AM
Hi Dave,
It is going to be a great gun and second only to the really fancy gun you will eventually build. I mentioned the locks in my previous post and your new photos offer a good example of why I wish we had more choices for these doubles. The L&R Bailes, Manton, baby Manton, whatever you want to call it has a curve on the bottom of the plate. This requires you to either tip the tail of the plate down or have the front angled downward slightly like it appears on your double. This means you inevitably end up with a funky knuckle around the front of the lock that interferes with the clean lines. When you look at a nice John or Joe Manton double, the stock has a clean smooth taper on the bottom from the triggers to the rear ramrod pipe. Hopefully, the photo below of a Joe Manton double shows what I am describing.
dave
Dave,
You are so correct on the curve on the underside of the L&R Bailes locks posing an eyesore. Fortunately, I have both TRS Manton V-pan as well as later Manton lock sets. I can afford the time to assemble the correct locks for my personal fowler. By the time a competent builder with the necessary skills and equipment invests his time into barrels, lock assembly, stocking the fowler and embellishments such as engraving, case hardenin etc. a client who has no idea of what is involved to build a high end fowler would more than likely pass out from sticker shock.
Thanks for seeing this build for what it is and not being too critical. When I undertake my next fowler, I will solicit you expertise and critical eye.
David

Are the Durs Egg locks suitable for this type of gun? I seem to have a long ago memory of making a pair
for someone but don't recall the time.They were for a high end builder as I recall.
Anyone that can commission a fine double gun will not be shocked at the price.The locks I just mentioned
went on a high end gun and the man that had it built flew his own private jet plane to pick it up.
About 15 years ago I made a matched pair of Stanton style caplocks for a double rifle with the 4 screw
fishtail bridles and got about $800 for them. These are NOT distressed market guns and never have been.
Bob Roller

smart dog · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2019, 01:59:02 PM »

Hi Bob,
The L&R Bailes locks are perfectly suitable for a double gun and if you look at doubles by Nock, Egg, and others from the late 18th century before inset or stepped breeches, they look OK. My complaint is simply that they are almost the only game in town and really limit what you can do. The Durs Egg lock is bigger and in my opinion, the Bailes is already big for a double. Double locks were typically 4 1/2"- 4 5/8" long. The bigger the lock, the harder it is to keep the stock slim at the wrist but not too wide in front of the locks. This is particularly true because none of our modern locks will work with inset breeches.

dave

Bob Roller · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2019, 02:10:12 PM »

Quote from: smart dog on July 14, 2019, 01:59:02 PM

Hi Bob,
The L&R Bailes locks are perfectly suitable for a double gun and if you look at doubles by Nock, Egg, and others from the late 18th century before inset or stepped breeches, they look OK. My complaint is simply that they are almost the only game in town and really limit what you can do. The Durs Egg lock is bigger and in my opinion, the Bailes is already big for a double. Double locks were typically 4 1/2"- 4 5/8" long. The bigger the lock, the harder it is to keep the stock slim at the wrist but not too wide in front of the locks. This is particularly true because none of our modern locks will work with inset breeches.

dave

Dave,
Thank you for the input on this.I have made two sets of double gun locks from TRS castings and
will never do another. They were for the inset breech plugs. Also made a pair of Small Mantons
for a man in Michigan??That was a while back.Could the modern locks like the Egg and Manton
have the bolster milled to make them better for a double gun?In the absence of a milling machine
maybe a good,sharp file would work.

Bob Roller

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Author Topic: There is a light at the end of the tunnel (Read 3830 times)