Building an Alexander Henry Target Rifle from a Rod England Kit

[Curtis]

Curtis,
I have been watching your progress on the A.H. Ron England rifle.  The following comments are offered in the spirit help, advise, and a 30 year love affair with British match rifles....
....Jim

Jim, thanks for the photos and comments.  I had received some photos from another acquaintance of a Rigby underlug and a description of how it is dovetailed into the barrel - after I had the lug installed, unfortunately.  Sometimes a person doesn't know what questions that need to be asked until they learn enough about a type of gun.    I have saved your photos and info for future reference, things to know for future builds.  The kit came with a dovetailed lug so I installed it without knowing what was done on the originals.

I have a trigger spring for my trigger, just haven't installed it yet.  I will take note of the trigger screw configuration in your photo for the next rifle.

I purchased a platinum lined nipple for the gun, after reading your post I will finish the seat in the snail to match the radius of the nipple.  It currently appears to be milled close to flat.  Good info to know there!  The kit came with a stainless plug for the breech cross flash channel plug - I will use that for now until I can come across an appropriately sized piece of platinum to make one.

The tang screw that came with the kit is properly tapered, and I reamed the hole in the stock to the proper taper with a bit more relief on the back side of the hole to pull the standing breech rearward.

You seem to have some pretty good resources at your disposal there - if you have an original lock with a stalking safety similar to one of those pictured below I would love to see how the slide and spring is made and how it is slotted into the pock plate.  I would like to duplicate one on a future Alexander Henry stalking rifle.





Thanks, Curtis

[Curtis]

Curtis, is this half-bent or full?
Would sure make capping at 1/2 bent easier than if closer.
Nice fitting, all 'round' - inlet and soldering. Thanks for the tutorial on that.

Daryl, in the photo the cock is at half cock.

Curtis

[Justin Urbantas]

In reply to Justin's question about no set triggers here is an answer.
These are ENGLISH rifles and the very high quality of these locks
eliminates the need for a set trigger and most of the people that
bought these new were military or former military and weren't used
to a light touch trigger of any kind. The single set triggers are seen
on English hunting rifles for whatever reason and of course a wide variety
of pistols but not on long range rifles.Also,there are RULES against set triggers
and locks tuned until the weight of a shadow can set them off.
I used a Whitworth semi military long range rifle for 11 years and the superb
Brazier lock needed no help from ANY kind of spring driven trigger.
In 2001 I started one of these rifles with a Green Mountain barrel and
used Don Brown's semi finished stalking rifle stock,a TOW trigger guard
and butt plate.my copy of the 4 screw Stanton lock,Don's assembled trigger
and finally got it to the range for testing in 2003.I also made my own tang
sight* adapted to the 2 "ears" that are on the standing breech and a Lyman
17A front sight with a spirit level base I made for it.On the original guns,
most of them got windage from the front sight only.It shot better than I
could and results against breech loaders at 500 Meters was outstanding
using a 560 grain grease grooved bullet from a custom mould that I still
have.
*This tang sight had an 8x40 thread elevating screw and that is the .025
calibration of an American micrometer and the staff was so marked using
my milling machine's calibrations.
Bob Roller

Thanks for the answer, Bob.  What twist was that GM barrel you used, and where did you find the mold? I'm thinking of going with a GM barrel for my  bullet gun build too.

[Justin Urbantas]

Curtis,  do you know if Rob just sells the breeches nipples, and plugs?

[westbj2]

Curtis,
I just happen to have a lock on the bench now that is here for repair. and I even have it apart!.....it has a rear sliding safety as found on A.H. work.  Will take some pictures for you.  Probably should post them here so that others interested/curious and see them as well.
Up coming work you will have.
The method of attaching the black horn forend tip seems to be almost unique to the British gun trade in this period. Think I have some pictures on my other computer.  Watch ebay for water buffalo horns.  I bought a big full set for $50 some time ago.  Makes wonderful butt plates as well.
Sights. Unfortunately there are no sights available that I am aware of which reflect the function and quality of the original sights on these rifles. Both the vernier rear threaded staff screw and the wind gage front screw used double lead threads to minimize adjustment effort. Originals also used a platinum scale on the side of the rear vernier. If you are a precision machinist it may be possible to use the 'frame' of a contemporary vernier sight and replace the screw with a #4 dia. double lead replacement. That said, there is a variety available witch will work OK.  Ask Snapper about which ones to consider. If you win the lottery just buy a complete original set    .
If you think I may be able to help, please do ask.
Jim

[snapper]

I have a safety on my Rigby as well if you need or want more pictures.   Might be a few days before I can get to it however.

I know Jim does not post much here and most people dont know him.   I have known Jim for a several years I have had him do work on rifles in the past for me.

Jim did the restoration work on my original Rigby LRML for me.   I could not think of anyone that I would trust more to work on a rifle like that.   His knowledge and work in this area is simply second to none.

Fleener

[Bob Roller]

Quote:  "make a good representation even if all the nuances of the old ones are not in place".
Bob,
 
You seem to have drifted a bit away from 'Quality is the conscious rejection of mediocrity' you noted earlier.  These rifles are the final evolution' of the percussion system and represent the British term "Best Gun" to the fullest. They deserve our best efforts.  Since when is close enough good enough?
Jim

I haven't drifted away from anything.There are any number of skill levels to take into account and
these superb rifles were NOT the end result of ONE man no matter whose name is on the lock plate.
There were barrel makers,lock filers,percussioners(breech plug)light metal work like trigger guards and
butt plates.Frequently our "best efforts"are NOT up to the masters of the past but the fact many of us are
trying hard works for me.I am not a gun stocker nor am I a maker of trigger guards and butt plates but
I CAN make a decent,useful gun lock and the absence of locks being returned for repair tells me I have
made at least a few that are still working and  for over 50 years.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Justin,
I used a 1 and1/8"GM barrel and turned it to round,all but the last 2" to match the
breech plug.It had a one in 18 twist and the custom mould was made by Ron Long
and given to me years ago by the now late Joe Baldwin in Illinois.Ron used Lyman
blocks to make this.I think Rod sells the plugs as a separate item but the best thing
is to contact him and find out.<rtengland864@aol.com>.

Bob Roller

[Gunnermike]

Curtis here are some photos of a Brazier lock from a Whitworth rifle with a safety in front of the hammer:







Hope this helps some.   Mike

[Bob Roller]

That looks like the lock on the Whitworth I had.Is it #730 by chance?
Thanks for posting this. I have made only one of these Brazier style
locks and that was about 15 years ago..
Bob Roller

[Curtis]

Curtis,
I just happen to have a lock on the bench now that is here for repair. and I even have it apart!.....it has a rear sliding safety as found on A.H. work.  Will take some pictures for you.  Probably should post them here so that others interested/curious and see them as well.......
Jim

That would be fantastic if you could do that, Jim!  I have made a stalking safety for a lock before, using an English lock I have as and example - however the stalking safeties on the Alex Henry rifles look like they are a completely different animal from what I have seen in the past.

It is awesome to see we are getting some in-depth discussion rolling on this thread, exactly what I was hoping for!  I would also be interested in seeing the photos of how the horn tips were attached.  I was thinking about using a Schnabel for-end for this target rifle but you just might persuade me do use a traditional horn tip. 

Curtis

Curtis

[Curtis]

Curtis,  do you know if Rob just sells the breeches nipples, and plugs?

Justin, if you contact Rod he can send you a complete list of parts with pricing.  His contact info is in the "review" thread.  He offers all the various parts separately.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=54946.0

Curtis

[Curtis]

Curtis here are some photos of a Brazier lock from a Whitworth rifle with a safety in front of the hammer:







Hope this helps some.   Mike

Mike, the photos help a great deal.  The two interior shots offer up a wealth of information, it appears that the safety slides on a screw in a short slot.  I'm thinking the spring is incorporated in the external bar of the safety.  If Jim posts his photos of the disassembled lock and safety it will greatly clarify the issue.

Curtis

[Curtis]

That looks like the lock on the Whitworth I had.Is it #730 by chance?......

Bob Roller

Bob, I can see the number 867 stamped on the inside of the lock plate on the bottom photo, does that by chance match the serial number?

Curtis

[FlintFan]

Where does the front sliding safety engage to hold the hammer and/or tumbler?  I'm not as familiar with this design.  I have seen rear sliding safeties slide into a notch in the hammer itself, but I do not see such a notch on this lock. 

[Bob Roller]

Curtis,
I don't know about the number in the lock matching the gun.That Brazier pattern is still a beautiful
lock no matter what.The Stanton fishtail bridle is easier to make and I might do another one while
I still have material in the shop.

FlintFan,
On the Whitworth/Henry I owned the sliding safety engaged an area on the back side
of the hammer at half cock. I got into the habit of engaging it by pulling the hammer
to half cock when gun rotated in recoil.The the engagement area was a semi circle that
had a slot in it that was coordinated with the half cock position in the tumbler.I have
never tried to copy it but a Canadian friend,Ted Girodat put one behind the hammer on a
"4 pin" lock I made for him.He made a Henry that was every bit as good as the original
he had in his collection of fine English rifles.Maybe someone with one of these locks can
take the hammer off and show the way the safety in front of the hammer works.

Bob Roller

[westbj2]

To

Inside of the lock.  Here you can see the inside of the safety body.  2 aspects are of interest.  Method of attaching the two outside and inside pieces of the safety body and the rounded nub which interacts with a corresponding nub on the tension spring. First a normal picture. Notice the shiny spot atop the body...it is the top of a headless screw which goes down thru the body and a mortised tab from the front half of the safety.  Lets have a look.
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Magnified view of screw and mortise.


And the tab/mortise joint.


Rear inside portion of the body has a round topped nub which interacts with another rounded nub on the inside of the tension spring.  Two views, regular and magnified.
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Finally, a look at the tension spring and sear spring. Notice the nub toward the end of the tension spring it is .040" wide and .040" tall. Fit of the two springs is amazing.  Both are secured by a single screw.




Forgot a pic of the front of the lock.  This is the end of the mortise showing the .050" longer mortise than the safety body, allowing for travel.

[westbj2]

Some how I lost the beginning of the above post. 
The locking tab protrudes up .110" and engages a mating notch on the rear of the hammer at half cock, Travel forward in the mortise is .050".  All sorts of shapes are found on the "push-pull" bump.

[Curtis]

Thanks for the photos and descriptions Jim!  Does that safety lock both the hammer and the tumbler?

Curtis

[westbj2]

Curtis,
The safety engages the rear of the hammer at half cock, and does not engage the tumbler.


I mentioned above somewhere about attachment of the horn forend tip.  As you can see a tab that is about 3/16" thick at the bottom flat and going up the quartering flat.  As a blank, the tab will be about an inch long and a half inch tall.  Fit, then glue then shape to barrel shape.  (The little hole was used by the checkerer to hold the front of the stock.)
 


Here is a good picture of the cross key retainer pin typically found on match rifles


Jim

[Curtis]

Jim, thanks for the post, LOTS of useful information there.  I really appreciate your willingness to help out and share some of your knowledge!

Curtis

[Daryl]

Tks Curtis.

[Curtis]

You're welcome Daryl!

This is likely my last post on this gun for a week or two, I will be attending the CLA show and have some other obligations.

After reading one of westbj2's posts I took a closer look at the nipple seating.  The nipple is platinum lined and the bottom is rounded with a gentle radius.  The nipple seat in the patent breech was flat on the bottom and the nipple shoulder was standing proud when the nipple was bottomed out.



Since the snail was already threaded I needed a special tool that wouldn't bugger the threads while cutting a radiused bottom to the nipple seat.  So I took a broken drill shank that would slip into the hole, filed it to the profile of the convex nipple bottom, then filed some fine shallow cutting teeth on the improvised tool:



First two teeth filed in:



All teeth cut:





The cutter was then hardened and drawn back to a straw color. I lubricated the end, chucked it in a hand drill and carefully went to work on the nipple seat, removing chips fairly often.  The chips were fine like dust and made a slurry in the cutting oil.





The fine teeth left a polished surface on the nipple seat.  I ran a bottoming tap down the hole, painted the nipple end with a blue Sharpie and replaced the nipple.  In this photo I still had a couple of thousandths to go before the shoulder was seated.  The blue marker on the nipple indicated a good seat.  I will have to take another photograph of the completely seated nipple.



I decided it was time to fit the trigger guard to the stock, but first I needed to install the screw at the rear of the trigger plate.





I had to do some bending of the guard to match the stock profile, then held it in place to scribe around the finial.  Wood was removed, inlet black painted on the guard, and the fit then cut process was repeated until the finial was all the way in.





I got it center punched for the screw hole and had to quit for the day.



That's all for now!

Curtis

[westbj2]

Curtis,
You got the nipple seat just right!   
Jim

[Curtis]

Curtis,
You got the nipple seat just right!   
Jim

Thanks for the input, Jim!

Curtis