Author Topic: Montana Buffalo hunt  (Read 7466 times)

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2019, 01:02:52 PM »
Well if I did use the rifle/projectile they wanted then the spiteful side of me would drop ten 54 caliber round balls out of my pocket on the ground while I was wiping blood off of my gutting knife.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2019, 03:25:18 PM »
It's with an attitude like that we have already lost.
 We may be a small number as compared to the shooting community as a whole but if every shooting club and single shooter speaks up our voices will be heard. It's bad enough our numbers are falling as many of us are getting older and some too old to compete but for those of us who love these "long rifles" we must stand up to those who want to do us harm.
 I am not an activist by nature but living in the far "Left Coast" it is hard not to be scared of those who look on all shooters as dangerous and want to control and contain us to what they believe. As a group the "American Longrifles" should have a platform for all of us to speak as a combined "voice".
No more will be posted by "The Muskrat" on this topic.

I said we can fight and I will. I never give up on anything. However, some fights will be lost and our odds are low. You're preaching to the choir with your post to me.

I fought Colorado on making a .50 cal PRB illegal for elk. It was a losing battle and we lost.

Offline 45-110

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2019, 07:36:32 PM »
My original post about lead bullets for hunting sure brought out some passion!
Funny how some of the healthiest, lush floral and fauna  environments are on the eastern battlefields, IE Gettysburg, Yorktown, and our own Little Big Horn. There is tons of lead sprinkled all over those places. I would like to hunt a Buff riding my horse and "Getting a stand", but with these rules forget it. I will stay with the elk on my place. No bismuth for me.
kw

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2019, 07:28:23 PM »


D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2019, 09:16:25 PM »
Wow! That's big.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2019, 01:39:15 AM »
I agree, 10 year old bull. This is the first time I have seen this picture. Impressive.
Daryl

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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2019, 04:09:36 AM »
Was that a Woods Bison variety?

Offline HelmutKutz

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2019, 02:28:11 PM »
Just adding information for people to understand the facts of why and how. Animals are not eating metal from lead bullets and even if one did manage to swallow a bullet or fragment lodged in a piece of meat, it would pass through the rapid digestive system in the animal before any appreciable volume of metallic lead could be converted for biouptake. His name I forget but the man who was responsible for producing the completely fabricated lies used to push the lead birdshot ban admitted to fabricating the information falsifying the test methods. The waterfowl used in the production of lies were starved for many days before being given mostly lead birdshot mixed with some food because it was the only way to get the fowl to consume the shot pellets. In many cases even the starving bird would not eat enough shot to make for good pictures, so they were force-fed in the same manner the French torture fowl to produce foie gras (fatted liver). Except for some fowl feeding consistently in an area heavily contaminated with lead birdshot, it is extremely rare to find wild fowl consuming more than perhaps a stray pellet in their life time. Fowl are not as foolish as the people who claim they are and all one need do is observe them in the wild or look to the actual scientific testing proving without doubt that fowl do not readily consume that which they can gain no nutritional value from and they select irregular shaped rough grit, not smooth and round grit.

Lead isn't coming from bullets or birdshot, it is come from lead arsenate (PbHAsO4) and more than two dozen other pesticides, herbicides and rodentcides. Herbicides like monosodium methanearsonate (MSMA) are widely used and mostly abused with the results presenting as heavy metal toxicity which it is, but not from hunting bullets or other metallic lead which cannot readily convert for biouptake, but from the acetates which are ready for biouptake through consumption and contact. Glyphosate (Round Up) and 2,4-D (Agent Orange) and monosodium methanearsonate (MSMA) are three of the most widely used herbicides in the United States despite being banned in 29 other countries. Both of products cause extraction contamination where heavy metal acetates contained in pesticides, rodencides and other widely used products are uptaken by plants. In particular 2,4-D and MSMA cause normally unpalatable plants to become highly palatable to herbivores and omnivores who are being poisoned not only by the toxins in the herbicides themselves but also the heavy metal acetates which were uptaken by plants.

It remains scientifically, biologically and mathematically impossible for all the animals claims to be poisoned by lead not only to be poisoned by lead but more importantly poisoned by lead hunting ammunition. If this were the case, one could not take five steps anywhere in the woods without finding a bullet laying on the ground ready to be consumed by some unsuspecting animals. It is absurd to even consider the possibility, yet there is a mass of fools buying the lies and propaganda. Don't argue politics, argue science!
HK

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2019, 07:24:04 PM »
Was that a Woods Bison variety?

No, this bison came from stock from Elk Island National Park near Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.  And they are plains bison.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2019, 01:10:51 AM »
Thanks for that clarefication(sp) Taylor. That Bison looked so big I thought it might have come from Wood Buffalo National Park in northern Alberta. I think that strain is larger than the plains variety.

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2019, 05:11:40 PM »
Taylor, what would it take for a non-Canadian to come up to your neck of the woods and hunt bison?  That is a heck of a good animal that you took.  Lots of meat, and a wonderful hide.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2019, 07:27:44 PM »
Craig:  I'm not entirely sure.  All bison hunts here are on a Limited Entry basis.  I don't know how a non-resident could get in on the lottery.  Likely, you would have to apply to a guide/outfitter, pay the fees he required, and make the journey to the Great White North.  I do not know of any guide/outfitters who specialize in bison hunts.  I have applied for years for a hunt in northern British Columbia, and have never been drawn.  The critter whose hide I presented was on a commercial farm where this old bull refused to submit to the butcher, two years in a row, and I was asked to help out.  He was released on the property and although contained by fences, it was definitely fair chase.  He did his best to hide from me.  And he was the most tenacious of life of any animal I have ever attempted to harvest.
I was offered the hide, but have two bison robes already, so turned it down.  I regret that now...it is magnificent.  I have his skull though - massive!
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2019, 08:05:38 PM »
Very good post, Helmut.

Very good buffalo robe, Taylor.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2019, 02:59:02 AM »
I just did a little research, albiet after the fact, and found the following:  the wood bison is LARGER than the plains animal and is what we have up here in northern Canada.  The stock from Elk Island Park is woods bison, not plains.  I had it reversed...sorry to mislead.
Thanks Richard.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2019, 04:00:25 AM »
"2,4-D (Agent Orange) "

Sorry you are wrong.  2, 4,-5T is agent orange.  2,4-D is a synthetic dioxin, and is not particularly  harmful.  It is the selective broad leaf herbicide that people commonly use on the front lawn.

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2019, 07:14:14 PM »
Taylor, thank you so much for the information.  I will probably have to confine my bison hunting to someone's "buffalo ranch".
When I lived in Oklahoma, there were several of these in my area, should have taken advantage of the opportunity.

One of my clients had me build him a "buffalo rifle" - .58 cal percussion.  It shot well, but he almost always tried to overload it.  And 300 gr of FFG will knock anyone onto their tailbone.
I do have some buffalo meat in the freezer, and tallow in the fridge.  Good friends are great!
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2019, 03:52:23 PM »
Surely, 300gr can't be needed. A common buffalo gun back in the day was the 45/70. A 405gr bullet but only 70gr of powder.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2019, 07:09:50 PM »
300 gr. is not needed.  Someone does not understand black powder round ball ballistics and the effect on living things.  They have 21st C magnumitis.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2019, 03:24:16 AM »
"2,4-D (Agent Orange) "

Sorry you are wrong.  2, 4,-5T is agent orange.  2,4-D is a synthetic dioxin, and is not particularly  harmful.  It is the selective broad leaf herbicide that people commonly use on the front lawn.

Agent Orange was a 50/50 mix of 2,4,5,T and 2,4,D.

The dioxin in AO came from the production of 2,4,5,T. During the manufacturing process the compound had to be heated within a specified temperature range. If the upper limit of that range was exceeded then dioxin would form.

Anyway... Back to buffalo.

Mike

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2019, 03:26:10 AM »
The problem is the traditional muzzleloader community is too small to have any power. We can fight the best we can but in the end we're going to lose.

Then our tiny community should have virtually no impact on the "environment."

Right?

Mike

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2019, 03:27:32 AM »
   Here is a good alternative to using lead shot for a buffalo hunt: the Lakota way. First, you ride in from all sides, encouraging the buffalo to run in a circle--letting them run straight away means you have to gather the meat from all over the prairie. Once they start this meat vortex, the bulls, somewhat tough chewing, move to the outside to protect the herd. Then you ride in among the animals to get at the cows, and especially the young, the tender. Using a quiver full of arrows, you get in lots of shots, with no fear of lead poisoning of the scavenging ravens and wolves. The hard part is surviving such a risky tactic.

I think I would go really OLD school and chase them off a cliff before I tried that.

Mike

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2019, 05:56:08 PM »
The problem is the traditional muzzleloader community is too small to have any power. We can fight the best we can but in the end we're going to lose.

Then our tiny community should have virtually no impact on the "environment."

Right?

Mike

Yes, and it's a good arguing point when we confront them.


Offline Dave A

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2019, 01:14:39 AM »
"I think I would go really OLD school and chase them off a cliff before I tried that."

Mike

--------------------------

I've always wondered how they would have hunted Buff in the really, really, really old school - before the Spaniards and horses?

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2019, 04:14:03 PM »
"I think I would go really OLD school and chase them off a cliff before I tried that."

Mike

You have to be an Indian to use that method. :)

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Montana Buffalo hunt
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2019, 04:46:20 PM »
We have several buffalo jumps up here in Alberta.  They were used periodically over a Long period of time.
Trouble is, once they start over the cliff, there is no way to "turn the tap off".
Some show a great depth of buffalo remains, with only the top layer probably utilized. 
A chap I know found an iron knife at one of these jumps. Looks like it was made from an iron tyre (tire) off a wagon.

Below are a few images of "Dry Island " buffalo jup, near Big Valley, AB.



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