Twisted stock blank

[hortonstn]

I just received a Curley maple stock blank that is twisted or warped any ideas on straightening
It out ?
Any ideas appreciated
Paul

[Tim Crosby]

 A jointer may help, then a few trips through a planner, very thin cuts on both. A lot depends on the thickness, you may not end up with what you need.

  Tim

[Hlbly]

Straighten the lock side on a jointer to get a straight center line and go from there.

[Robby]

This rifle was made using the last of many blank's I mined from a maple tree, and I was determined to use it. It was warped, twisted, cupped through the butt stock area, and was only 2-1/8" thick to boot. All I did was plane off the barrel channel area and inlet the barrel at such an angle as to make the most of the wood as it existed. I didn't try to steam bend anything figuring it had found its own comfort zone, HAH!Everything was pretty much squared and trued up by eye. With patience it can be done, but then, I do like a challenge.




Robby

[B.Habermehl]

Set your stock blank on a true and flat surface. Shim as necessary until you can develop a centerline you can live with. Useing your true and flat surface, Mark your center line and do the rest of your work off of it.

[Tim Crosby]

Straighten the lock side on a jointer to get a straight center line and go from there.

 That'll work too, just remember to do all your measuring from the lock side.

   Tim

[jerrywh]

Clamp the blank to a flat surface and heat it up with a heat gun to about 350°. Let it cool naturally.
  That will take out most of the warp permanently.  It will not be perfect but nearly. If you want it to be perfect you will have to clamp it down again and use some spacers to give it a little more twist in the desired direction. Then repeat the heat process. This way you can preserve you stock thickness. 

[Jeff Durnell]

That's what I'll be doing to a couple. I have a couple of blanks that are 2" or a hair less and heat corrections seem like their best chances. Heat gun or steam, depends on whether the affected area is large or small.

[shortbarrel]

I use a long wood plane to do this.

[Mike Lyons]

As long as you can get good center lines for the rifle,  I don’t see where it matters how twisted the wood is.  The rifle won’t be square for too long anyhow. Am I needing edgimacated?

[hortonstn]

Thanks to all, I've never had an easy project it just makes me think more
Now that I'm retired I need to get my head back in the game

[jerrywh]

You don't need steem heat alone works great.

[Goo]

Some times they continue to warp after you start carving the stock.

[AMartin]

Assuming the wood is dry and seasoned ... whenever I have a stock that is twisted I use a jointer and flatten the backside (opposite of lock)
Once it's flat , the bandsaw will cut the top and bottom square ...

Heat and steam would be a waste of time ..

[rich pierce]

I’ve heated twisted bow staves. I have no idea the amount of time and heat it would take to untwist something as big and thick as a stock blank. I agree with flattening one side and working from there.

[Eric Krewson]

I have heat bent a lot of bow wood as well, anything over 1 1/2" thick is very hard to move.

[Old Ford2]

This rifle was made using the last of many blank's I mined from a maple tree, and I was determined to use it. It was warped, twisted, cupped through the butt stock area, and was only 2-1/8" thick to boot. All I did was plane off the barrel channel area and inlet the barrel at such an angle as to make the most of the wood as it existed. I didn't try to steam bend anything figuring it had found its own comfort zone, HAH!Everything was pretty much squared and trued up by eye. With patience it can be done, but then, I do like a challenge.




Robby
Have a great day!
Fred

Very fine looking rifle, too bad the twisted stock made you put the lock on the wrong side......any way of fixing that?

[JTR]

If you just bought it, why not send it back, and have the vendor send you a straight one?

[PPatch]

Out of all the responses I like JerryWh's the best. If you simply plane it flat it will likely continue to move and warp and soon be out of square again. I dealt with this on my gun before last, the blank (2 1/4" thick) was twisted in the butt area mostly but along its length too. Prior to doing the barrel inlet I used a hand plane to square up the lock side and begin inletting the barrel, as I did so the wood continued to slowly but surely twist. The upshot is that you lose your centers and it makes things difficult as you attempt to shape your stock.

Try Jerry's heating method then allow the stock blank sit for a week or so and see if it has continued to twist. If so you might consider not using that blank for it is going to give you trouble all the way through the build. I have a walnut blank suitable for a long fowler in my shop that has been sitting for almost two years and I have planed it flat twice but it is still moving. It is better, only twisting slightly since the last time I squared it. I am of half a mind to not work it even so, kind of on the fence with it because I know what trouble a twisting stock causes. We shall see.

dave

[Ron Scott]

As you can see from the number of responses, there a plenty of different opinions on how to deal with a warped stock. I think it worth a reminder that the more highly figured the wood, regardless of species, the more prone it will be to some warpage. Also any grain bias will encourage warping. Since I sell a lot of Walnut stocks I get to witness a fair amount of warpage in figured stump layouts.  Dave Rase will like confirm that he has inlet barrels, in a large number of warped  stocks for me . I simply make all measurements off the centerline of the barrel and ignore the irregulars of outside dimensions. I have yet to observe any warpage after construction. Jerry is correct that it is possible to bend wood with heat.  I hesitate to heat wood intentionally, as there is a perception in the trade that high temperature degrade wood. Hence the premium placed on air dried wood as compared to kiln dried wood.   Wood is Fun ,it is Beautiful and it can be frustrating.

[Jeff Durnell]

Like a few of the fellas above, I've bent wood for bows with dry heat and steam hundreds of times. Sometimes, reheating and bending the same spot numerous times to get the limbs of the bow shaped or aligned just right. This has never shown to degrade the performance characteristics of the wood that I can tell, and actually, it's been found that heat is used to increase the performance characteristics of the wood... and unlike gun wood, bow limbs are very dynamic things, expected to flex under considerable strain, maintain alignment, and return to their original position. I wouldn't hesitate to heat correct a gun stock if it seemed to be the best option. If it moved a little more during construction and additional wood removal, I'd do it again once it was near final dimensions.

[Dave A]

Well, I guess I would have a different view.

1. The notion that you are going to heat a 2 1/2" plus maple stock blank to 350 degrees with a heat gun is silly. In order to permanent bend you need to get the core wood hot too- ain't happening with any heat gun setup.

2. Unless it was dried improperly, the state it is in now will be more stable and less likely to warp further.

3. Jointers etc. are great if you have thickness to spare, but they often take off a lot of material.

4. A good, minimally intrusive method is to lay the blank on a flat surface, place some shims so it doesn't rock, and get a simple pencil compass and laying the point side of the compass flat on the bench scribe a line around the blank with the pencil end. This creates a perfect flat plane that you can see. Using a plane knock the high points off first, and then bring all of the wood down to the pencil lines. It is usually easier and more accurate to plane on the bias. You could use a Sureform tool also.

Once it is flat/brought to the same plane, get 4 or 5 stickers of even thickness and put it under the blank and let sit there flat side down. If it stays relatively flat on the stickers you will be good to go, if it twist again you have a blank with bad grain structure/internal tension that will prove not worth the effort.

[jerrywh]

Well, I guess I would have a different view.

1. The notion that you are going to heat a 2 1/2" plus maple stock blank to 350 degrees with a heat gun is silly. In order to permanent bend you need to get the core wood hot too- ain't happening with any heat gun setup.

2. Unless it was dried improperly, the state it is in now will be more stable and less likely to warp further.

3. Jointers etc. are great if you have thickness to spare, but they often take off a lot of material.

4. A good, minimally intrusive method is to lay the blank on a flat surface, place some shims so it doesn't rock, and get a simple pencil compass and laying the point side of the compass flat on the bench scribe a line around the blank with the pencil end. This creates a perfect flat plane that you can see. Using a plane knock the high points off first, and then bring all of the wood down to the pencil lines. It is usually easier and more accurate to plane on the bias. You could use a Sureform tool also.

Once it is flat/brought to the same plane, get 4 or 5 stickers of even thickness and put it under the blank and let sit there flat side down. If it stays relatively flat on the stickers you will be good to go, if it twist again you have a blank with bad grain structure/internal tension that will prove not worth the effort.

Dave, Myself, Master gunmaker Steve nelson and another friend of mine are just silly enough to have done it a few dozen times with heat guns. It is smart to use a infra red pyrometer though.
  I use two heat guns one on each side. Steve Nelson often uses heat lamps. Which might be easier for a beginner. less chance of over heating. As long as you stay under 400° there is not much danger of burning the wood. That is what is good about boiling.

[Dave A]

Jerry- I think it's terrific if it has worked for you. However I remain more than skeptical.

The original post states a blank with warp and twist. If you had a 1/4" twist just across the butt section of a typical thick blank you would be hard pressed to clamp it down, indeed most people wouldn't have a bench stiff enough to even do so, and straightening a twist in the butt you would be introducing stress/twist in the thinner wrist area of a blank.

Even bending an english gripped double shotgun with it's thin wrist requires a fair amount of heat, encircling the wrist,  usually combined with hot oil, and that's a comparatively  easy to bend wood. Maple is a difficult wood to bend, and even with a steam chamber it would have to be in their an hour plus to soften.

Clamping one side flat and heating the opposite side as you first suggested would never heat all the way through. Wood is an awful conductor of heat, and the bench would serve as a heat sink drawing out any heat on that side anyway.

Forcing out a twist/warp/cup is also much more likely to reoccur also, since that is where the wood wants to be.

The commercial hardwood industry would have adopted such practices long ago- they literally would gain Billions in profits from it, not to mention the woodworking industry would benefit similarly as well.

Hope you take this post in the spirit in which it was written. The beauty to me of Forums such as this is getting thoughts/ideas/opinions out there for all to decide. This post started from someone looking for advice, which is more important to help rather than delve into any pedantics.

[WadePatton]

I've seen Louis Sauzedde (boats) and Engels Coach Shop (wagons) bend a lot of big wood (oak and ash usually).  Especially the coach shop-but he uses presses for the big wood.

I really like how Louis makes a bag around the plank from sheet plastic. Then he pushes enough steam through the bag to get it bendy.  Yes it takes a while. But they don't speak of boat parts or wagon pieces un-bending themselves after shaped or years later. 

Best of luck with whichever method you use.