Hawken half cock notch.

[redheart]

Distinguished Gentlemen,
I just took delivery of my Hawken Shoppe parts set. Bama thought so highly of his that I thought I'd try to assemble one.
One thing seems very odd to me. The hammer at half cock will be approx. 1 1/8" from the nipple and at full cock will be about 1 5/8" away.
It looks ridiculous and for me is very impractical and seems like it will beat the nipple to death. It begs the question: Would an original Hawken's half cock place the hammer just barely above a capped nipple to shield it for carry and keep the cap from falling off requiring you to cap it at full cock and lower it carefully to half cock. The way it is now it seems quite hazardous to attempt carrying it at half cock and the only alternative is to lower it all the way until it's touching the cap. Equally hazardous! I have an original caplock pocket pistol and at half cock the hammer clears the cap by less than 1/16". This seems to be as good as it gets for carrying it "at the ready".
Thanks in advance for your opinions and experience.

[Bob Roller]

Distinguished Gentlemen,
I just took delivery of my Hawken Shoppe parts set. Bama thought so highly of his that I thought I'd try to assemble one.
One thing seems very odd to me. The hammer at half cock will be approx. 1 1/8" from the nipple and at full cock will be about 1 5/8" away.
It looks ridiculous and for me is very impractical and seems like it will beat the nipple to death. It begs the question: Would an original Hawken's half cock place the hammer just barely above a capped nipple to shield it for carry and keep the cap from falling off requiring you to cap it at full cock and lower it carefully to half cock. The way it is now it seems quite hazardous to attempt carrying it at half cock and the only alternative is to lower it all the way until it's touching the cap. Equally hazardous! I have an original caplock pocket pistol and at half cock the hammer clears the cap by less than 1/16". This seems to be as good as it gets for carrying it "at the ready".
Thanks in advance for your opinions and experience.

There's a good chance the old Hawken rifles had no half cock at all.Those locks were not
sophisticated designs and the reason we have them today is for loading.The compression of air forces the powder
up under the nipple in a bolster breech.As far as "safety is concerned the only thing I call a safety on a gun lock
is a sliding safety as seen on a lot of very high quality locks on long range rifles and some flintlocks as well.
You might recut the tumbler or get another hammer and figure out the orientation you need and then file a
square hole to get the reduced throw you want.Either that of another tumbler that might have to be custom made
and fitted with a "fly".

Bob Roller

[Mtn Meek]

I agree with Bob.  I don't rely on the half cock notch as a safety.  When I'm hunting or carrying my percussion rifle in the field, I use a homemade version of this.


The commercial version is called a Kap Kover and is available from places like Dixie Gun Works and October Country Muzzleloading.

It's basically the same concept as used on some military percussion arms like the Enfield.

It covers the capped nipple and the hammer rests safely on the knob at the top that the thong is tied to.

My homemade version doesn't have the special nipple with the O-ring as I'm not that concerned with moisture out here in Colorado.

[rich pierce]

I’m confused. 1 and 1/8” at half cock seems plenty.

[Bob Roller]

I’m confused. 1 and 1/8” at half cock seems plenty.

The 1and 1/8" half cock would make it easy to get the cap on the nipple but it is also a
hammer fall that can fire the gun if the sear is broken by bad handling or if the tumbler fails.
That nipple cover is the cure and I had COMPLETELY forgot about that idea.
That lock need to be redone with another tumbler or a reoriented hammer.
One thing just crawled out of memory. Several years ago a man bought a long range rifle
with one of my "4 pin" locks on it that had been altered by filing or grinding off the normal
full cock notch and then altering the half cock so the lock could be fired from that position.
It shortened the hammer drop but rendered the rifle unusable because of no safety of any
kind.I made and installed a new tumbler with two positions and a "fly".I think there are rules
that apply to these guns in competitive shooting involving a working lock.
Bob Roller

[redheart]

Bob & Phil,
I thank you very kindly for the sage advice. I guess I'll try to get a new hammer without a hole in it and change the orientation as you recommended Bob. I don't have the skills to fool with the tumbler. I have 2 of your locks and they of course are the way I think they should be. Sadly this Hawken Shoppe lock isn't even in the same room as yours as far as quality. And for hunting I'll go with Phil's solution.

[rsells]

I would talk to the Hawken Shop folks and see if this is the norm for their product, and if so tell them about your concerns and see if they have a different tumble that will change the relationship.
                                                                                        Roger

[redheart]

I would talk to the Hawken Shop folks and see if this is the norm for their product, and if so tell them about your concerns and see if they have a different tumble that will change the relationship.
                                                                                        Roger

Thanks very much Roger,
You know I don't think I've bought a new flintlock lock yet that I didn't have to work on for hours, but this is a capper and for what they charge for the parts I expected more. I forgot to mention that the lock won't hold back at all on full cock, so these are going out the door with no final inspection I guess. Thanks again for the hint, This time I'll call them and see if they just didn't try to slip one over on me. What burns me is paying the postage to send parts back that ought to be right in the first place.

[Bob Roller]

Production work is what it is.No checking or testing or final adjustments.
Few American guns had a high quality lock but what you describe will
barely make wretched.

Bob Roller

[redheart]

Production work is what it is.No checking or testing or final adjustments.
Few American guns had a high quality lock but what you describe will
barely make wretched.

Bob Roller

I'm glad to hear this from you Bob so the guys don't think I'm being too picky.

[Bob Roller]

Production work is what it is.No checking or testing or final adjustments.
Few American guns had a high quality lock but what you describe will
barely make wretched.

Bob Roller

I'm glad to hear this from you Bob so the guys don't think I'm being too picky.

Tell whoever offered it that it should never have been allowed to get out
of their shop and you can tell them I said so.

Bob Roller