Author Topic: Proof marks  (Read 776 times)

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Proof marks
« on: August 10, 2019, 10:35:45 PM »
I canít find these in any of my search of references. Does anyone recognize them?





« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 04:39:29 PM by Ky-Flinter »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13164
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 11:58:38 PM »
Letís see the rest!
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 12:43:42 AM »


« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 04:37:08 PM by Ky-Flinter »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 12:58:43 AM »






Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline WKevinD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1092
PEACE is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.  Thomas Jefferson

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2522
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 01:08:16 AM »
Those look like ordnance proofs for private proofing at the tower wharf, London.

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 01:35:16 AM »
Hi Shreck,
They may be private Tower proofs as James suggest but why the heck did you not include a photo of the top of the barrel and the rest of the gun, including the lock.  We cannot give you a good answer until we see all the data.  I am frustrated when people do that because it wastes the time of folks who can really help.  I rarely respond to people anymore who don't provide adequate data and context. 

dave
"Flick Lives!"

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 02:40:58 AM »
I am biting my lip. I asked if anyone recognized the marks. Thank you Mr. Rogers




« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 04:48:36 AM by Shreckmeister »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2019, 02:48:05 AM »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline WESTbury

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2019, 02:44:06 PM »
Private Tower Proofs "Small Arms of the British Forces in America", page 135, by De Witt Bailey 2009 Mowbray Publishing
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4432
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2019, 03:30:59 PM »
Hi Shreck,
I apologize.  You were just asking about the marks not a identification of the gun.  They do appear to be private Tower proofs, which gives a earliest date of 1751 or so.  By that time, locks without pan bridles would be generally used on cheaper livery and trade guns.  The pistol by Stanton that you linked to must have been made before 1766 when Stanton died.  Jonathan Stanton took over the business from William Turvey in 1745.  Anyway, if your pistol is related that narrows dates from 1751-1766.  Do you have any context or story about this pistol that you are willing to share?

dave
"Flick Lives!"

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1972
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2019, 03:57:05 PM »
Dave and Shreck,

With this lock having the short scear spring, I'd put it towards the end of Stanton's production.


Best wises,
R.

Offline WESTbury

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2019, 04:19:14 PM »
Back to DeWitt Bailey's book mentioned in my prior post, pages 133-134 show detail photo of an Officer's fusil by Henry Thomas active in Birmingham from 1773 to 1811. The tang area of the fusil has similar wire inlay around the tang and a similar, but much better quality, wrist escutcheon plate.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2019, 10:49:58 PM »
Thanks Dave and others for your feedback. I have zero info on the pistol. I just liked it. Glad to know more about it.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline WESTbury

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2019, 04:59:44 AM »
I'm sure that we are all aware of Joe Puleo's article in Man at Arms Vol 33 No.6 2011, "Ketland Guns in America", containing a detailed discussion of British proofs, etc.

Still waiting for Joe to have Stuart publish his much anticipated book on the Ketlands.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline JV Puleo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
Re: Proof marks
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2019, 05:06:41 PM »
Thanks! The K book is "in the works"... I'm just coming to the end of the Thomas Ketland Sr. chapter. Next is the chapter on the export trade, then William Ketland, a chapter on the Ketland Ordnance contracts and one on the fake Ketlands. Realistically, I'm still about a year from finishing, mostly due to the fact I work slowly and I keep having to incorporate new information.

jp