Help! :( Bent Cock??

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys, I just received my rifle back from a builder (I will not name them as that is a sure-fire way to get your thread locked here) for some problems. It had the wrong barrel on it, and the nosecap was badly marred out of the package. Well today I get it back and those issues are fixed. But I noticed the cock appears to be bending at its forward most part of travel. This is what it looks like all the way down, frozen open, in the “fired” position:





At half or full cock, the cock is not bend. But it “hitches” and sort of bounces off the side of the stock and bends like this when fired. Is this a normal condition guys? Is the cock meant to bend like this and bounce of the stock? I can get it to sort of hold on the side of the stock before half cock, and it slips off the wood.

Should I contact the builder yet again guys? Need input. Thanks in advance!

-Smokey

[Ed Wenger]

It might be bent, but from the first photo, it appears as though the cock is not fully seated, or square, on the tumbler.  At least that’s what it looks like to me...


         Ed

[BruceH]

Yes, you should contact the builder.  The stock should have a relief filed in at the point where it is now contacting with the cock.

[Mauser06]

That screw sticking out ain't helping matters.   That could be interfering as well....even if it's not...I can't stand screws sticking out of lock plates like that lol

[Smokey Plainsman]

EDIT: Okay I took the lock off, and actually what’s happening is the cock is rubbing on the lock plate, it wasn’t the stock and there is a relief in the wood. It’s already worn away the Browning where it contacts. This is a Jim Chambers Late Ketland lock. Should I contact Jim or send the whole thing back to the builder who shall not be named? I’d rather just send the lock in as it’s a pain to have to box up this rifle yet again and send it back.

[Bob Roller]

Rubbing on the lock plate?I would think that such a lock would not be sent from Jim Chambers
and wonder if the gun maker did something to it.

Bob Roller

[Mauser06]

Show us where it's hitting the lock plate?



I agree with Ed...it looks like it's not fully seated..or not squarely seated...pretty easy fix if that's the issue.   

[Smokey Plainsman]

Here’s what’s going on:

[Ed Wenger]

Still looks to me like the cock is not fully seated on the tumbler, thus not square to the lock plate.


         Ed

[TommyG]

I agree with Ed.  Either there is some flash from the cock casting hanging it up or maybe the square stem on the tumbler shaft is not machined correctly.  Either way, that cock should be sitting further down the tumbler shaft and sitting square.  I also agree with Mauser, those sear & sear spring screws should be flush with the plate.  Both conditions are nothing that a bit of filing couldn't take care of, but that should have been done by the builder.  As a builder I would accept a lock with those conditions and correct them(after grumbling a bit), as a customer I would not.

[Jeff Durnell]

It's supposed to hit the lock plate... but only on its top surface. I doubt if it's bent. It appears to me that maybe the cock isn't tightened/pulled down square like Ed said, which is allowing it to sit crooked on the stem of the tumbler. Sitting crooked allows it to miss it's contact surface on the top of the lock plate when lowered... and then travel too far, rubbing on the side of the lock plate.

I'd remove the cock screw, cock, check the mounting surfaces, and try to reinstall it straight and square.

[WKevinD]

I agree with whats said about the hammer not being seated and the sear spring screw being too long (probably the wrong screw in the wrong hole)you can see where the hammer has been hitting the screw.
DO NOT attempt to seat the hammer by tightening the hammer screw, you will shear it off and create a world of problems.
This is not a Chambers problem but a problem created by whoever took apart and re assembled the lock.

Kevin

[Jim Chambers]

Looks like your builder did not install the cock squarely on the tumbler when he reassembled the lock.  You can remove the cock yourself and reinstall it making sure it goes on the tumbler squarely.  If you don't feel comfortable doing this yourself just send it back to me along with return postage, and I'll be glad to install it correctly at no charge.

[rich pierce]

You really need an experienced builder to examine the rifle. There’s only so much we can guess from pictures. 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Alright guys... I just emailed the builder (it’s a very well known company...) expressing my displeasure at the lack of attention to detail with this rifle, which I spent over $1700 on.

As delivered the rifle had:

-The wrong barrel. I paid and was charged for a round bottom a Rice barrel and the gun showed up with square rifling... thankfully now fixed, but with noticeable gaps behind the breechplug were the new barrel was shoehorned into place.

-The nosecap was badly marred or improperly finished right out of the box. Now fixed.

-the inletting around the lockplate and sideplate were amateurish at best. The builder chose not to do anything about this when I sent it back the first time.

-The lock issues as mentioned in this thread. I’m waiting for their response.

Overall fit and finish if the The quality or lack thereof from this very well known builder are extremely disappointing. I feel hopeless and absolutely disenfranchised from this hobby. My first attempt at commissioning a builder went horribly wrong, and this second attempt from what I thought was a well thought of outfit is not going well at all.

I’m sure to receive many responses saying that it’s my fault or whatever. At this point I just do not care. I’m ready to demand a refund and get out of this sport for good.

[Jeff Durnell]

I understand how you feel. None of the things you mentioned are your fault, and you are right to expect a good quality rifle for $1700 in my opinion. I may not expect it to be adorned with beautiful, or any, carving and engraving, but the rifle should be what you ordered, and mechanics and fit and finish should be very good to excellent.

I wouldn't let it cause me to give up on the sport though. I've had a lot of fun over the last 30 years with a $140 T/C Hawken 

I hope it works out well for you.

By the way, did you try to remove the cock and reinstall it straight? It might be an easy fix.

[Elnathan]

-The lock issues as mentioned in this thread. I’m waiting for their response.

If that doesn't work out, Jim Chambers himself just offered to fix it for you for free, as long as you pay for the shipping. Also, you could try fixing it yourself - at some point you will want to disassemble the lock for cleaning or something anyway, so learning how to get the cock on and off now wouldn't be a bad idea.

[mikeyfirelock]

Looks to me like possibly the lock bolt screw may have been a tad too long and forced the cock to the right side near the end of its travel (?)

[Eric Krewson]

I got a lock from L&R that had the same problem. The tumbler shaft wasn't ground off deeply enough for the cock to pull down into the right position and the cock was just nicking the cock stop on the top of the lock plate. L&R did a lousy job fixing the problem on their first attempt so I fixed it myself.

[smart dog]

Hi,
That flint cock is not seated squarely on the tumbler and only a small portion of the shoulder is resting as it should on the lock plate bolster causing the wear.  What I suspect happened is the maker removed the flint cock when the lock was at rest.   Without the flint cock arresting the action of the lock, the tumbler turned slightly further forward.  Then when replacing the flint cock, the maker failed to bring the lock back to half cock before seating it on the tumbler.  As a result, the shoulder of the cock does not ride over the edge of the lock plate forcing it to be cocked at an angle.  Nothing like that should ever leave the shop of a responsible maker.  FYI, when removing a flint cock without disassembling the rest of the lock, always bring the flint cock back to half cock first.  In fact, it is wise to always bring a flintlock back to half cock whenever removing it from the lock mortice.

dave 

[rich pierce]

Smokey, do you know any other experienced flint shooters with some building experience?  Things like this flint cock being cocked on the tumbler axle are pretty easily diagnosed in hand and easily remedied.

[Jeff Durnell]

I would put the lock back into the rifle and look into what Mikeyfirelock said, "Looks to me like possibly the lock bolt screw may have been a tad too long and forced the cock to the right side near the end of its travel."

We can't see it in the photos, but if the rear lock mounting bolt sticks out too far, the cock can hit it. You won't see whether or not they're making contact until you put the lock back in the gun.

If this is indeed the case, there will be scrape marks on the inside surface of the cock where it's rubbing the end of that bolt.

[Jeff Durnell]

...meaning, the bolt that is threaded into this hole.

[Mike Lyons]

I think Rich asked a good question.  Have you ever taken apart a lock?  Do you have the special  tools?  If not, find someone who knows what they are doing or send it to Chambers. You want to be extremely confident in your lock or you’ll get frustrated when you have a misfire and it will drive you completely bonkers.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you, friends. Going to speak with the head of the outfit on Monday to discuss my dismay at the quality control from this shop. Thanks to all for offering help and assistance, it is much appreciated. Will update Monday.