Novice Butt-plate install questions

[JLayne]

I am working on my first precarve stock and have come to the point where it is time to work on installing the buttplate. It is a Virginia Rifle I got from Knob Mountain, and I have a few novice questions.

First Question: In the books and videos I have on hand, the author/gunsmith uses a bandsaw to cut the basic inner shape of the plate at the butt end of the stock and to cut the heel extension shelf along the top of the comb (after measuring for length of pull).  Not having a bandsaw, however, I will need to do this by hand. For those of you have done this by hand, do you recommend using any particular type of hand saw and technique over others? The VA rifle does not have a sharp inward curve coming down from the heel to the toe of the butt-plate, but it is curved enough that I am thinking something with a thin blade like a hack saw may be ideal, but I would like to hear the wisdom of more experienced voices before laying into it.

Second question: On a precarve stock in which there is no pre-cut shelf on which to begin inletting the heel extension, how far below the top of the comb would you recommend cutting the shelf to start? In other words, how deep below the comb should I sink the heel extension and still leave myself enough room for final shaping of the comb to the front of it?

Third Question: If any of you have ever built a pre-carve from Knob Mountain before, did you leave room for cast-off when installing the butt-plate? The buttstock has excess wood on it at present which will be cut away prior to installing the buttplate, but it looks like leaving room for cast-off after that may or may not work, although I can't accurately measure it until the excess at the back is cut away.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jay

[rich pierce]

Jay,
I’d use a coping saw by hand or a power jigsaw if I did not have a traditional frame  saw which is what I use.

To know how to set up your cuts take the buttplate and stretch packing or duct tape across the lower edges of the tang extension and across the inside of the heel. Now fiddle around with scissors to cut a  piece of thin cardboard like cereal or cracker box till it perfectly fits up against the inside of the buttplate. That cardboard pattern is now the flat profile you want to saw on the precarve. Use that to lay out your cuts.

Stay square and give yourself 1/16” extra on the top.

[Waksupi]

I always make sure the sights line up properly before doing the butt plate. Prevents surprises.

Something John Bivins mentioned years ago, was to anneal the buttplate, fit it as close as possible, and peen the edges to the surface, then file. He got this from examining old originals that had been fit this way. Works well. The only mishap I had doing it was with annealing a brass buttplate. I tossed it onto the coals in my workshop stove. Checked it a few minutes later to find a melted blob.






 

[Stophel]

I don't do the cut-a-square-chunk-out-of-the-heel thing.  When you do them that way, with nothing supporting the buttplate tang around the screw, and you tighten the screw down, it can squish the buttplate down in the middle, and out at the sides.

I inlet buttplates the way Ron Ehlert showed me years and years ago.  Get the butt of the gun shaped down before  you inlet anything.  Cut the profile of the butt VERY close to finished dimensions right off.  Find and mark the location of the buttplate, pull length, cast off, etc.  Set the buttplate against the side of the stock and trace out for the inside of the buttplate surface, and cut it off.  Turn the buttplate around backwards and trace the shape of the buttplate onto the endgrain of the stock, taking into account your cast off. Now you know where the buttplate will be, and you can shape the whole butt down to nearly finished dimensions, and then you can inlet the buttplate.  This way, you can also adjust things a little bit as you go, if necessary, before getting the buttplate in place.  I inlet the tang straight down, but if you have a buttplate with much hook or curve, you may have to inlet at sort of a 45 degree angle forward, if that makes sense.  Heavily hooked buttplates may need to be inlet straight forward.  This way you get full support underneath the buttplate tang. 

[J. Talbert]

This may help illustrate what Stophel is describing.




Jeff

[Stophel]

Yep.

I did one a long time ago by sawing out a square chunk for the buttplate tang, and when I screwed it down, it squeezed it down and out...not good.  I had to cut and fit and glue in a hunk of wood to go underneath the buttplate tang to support it.  You may be able to get away with it with hard, stiff steel buttplates, but not dead soft yellow brass.

[Mike Brooks]

I'm not sure if I have ever seen an original buttplate done that way, but there probably was.

[Jim Kibler]

Leaving wood in the buttplate return is a great way to fit it, but more work.  Some originals were done this way, while others weren't.  If the buttplate is substantial it shouldn't squash down with the buttplate screw.  Another big advantage of wood in the return is that it allows the forward screw to be located in a "drawbore" fashion to pull the buttplate forward against the inlet.  This is why we've left wood here in our Colonial kit.

Jim

[J. Talbert]

 I must admit that I have not had the opportunity to examine any such originals, but according to Marc Silver there were a number of them done this way. I can also say that a Jud Brennan gun that I had the opportunity to do a minor repair on was done this way.

Jeff

[Mike Brooks]

I'm not sure if I have ever seen an original buttplate done that way, but there probably was.

I take that back, RCA #15 is done that way. BUT, I believe the sheet brass buttplate was actually  formed over the lump left on the stock in this case.

[Herb]

I cut buttstocks off with a hacksaw.  Works better for me than a coping saw.  You need a deep frame and still have to cut from the top down and then the bottom up.  I use a coarser blade, 18  teeth  per inch.  You have to back up and saw a wider cut to allow the blade to make the turn.  You have to have an accurate template of the inside of the butt plate curve and then trace it on both sides of the stock.  Watch your cut to stay behind the lines. Be sure not to cut the toe too far forward.  It is easier to rasp that forward later than it is to move the whole deep curve of the buttplate forward.  I cut a flat shelf for the return but when the plate is fitted, I glue a filler under the return.  The plate is smoked up and tapped to check the fit, with the black spots being scraped down.   I draw the comb line on the stock and draw a line under it to allow the thickness of the return, less perhaps 1/16".   And I put in cast off.