Author Topic: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820  (Read 7847 times)

Offline Stoner creek

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Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« on: August 30, 2019, 05:37:56 PM »
It’s MY cup of tea! That folksy stuff is great. I like the back story and everything about it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 01:58:07 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline MuskratMike

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 05:55:49 PM »
WOW a piece of history! What caliber and condition of the bore please.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 06:30:37 PM »
Want to make sure I'm clear on it being a "new" fake!  It's .45 smoothbore, bore is new although I faked the corrosion about 3"-4" down the muzzle in an applied/non-damaging manner.  It could easily be removed if you want to shoot it.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline nemovir

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 07:12:23 PM »
It's an "art piece," built as a contemporary fake.

Sorry, i am a noobie.  When you say it is a fake, do you mean it was, specifically, made to deceive someone or it was inspired by an older model.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2019, 07:17:34 PM »
It’s not meant to deceive any more than dozens of builders bench copies. EK is just more creative than most and can build believable guns that look like originals more than many.
Andover, Vermont

Offline tallbear

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2019, 07:38:07 PM »
Good to see you posting some new work again Eric.I've always been a big fan!!!!!!!

Mitch

Offline nemovir

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2019, 07:42:33 PM »
It’s not meant to deceive any more than dozens of builders bench copies. EK is just more creative than most and can build believable guns that look like originals more than many.

Thank you. I'm still learning the jargon. :P

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2019, 07:48:35 PM »
I saw this a few days ago on the blog...or somewhere. I was completely fooled into believing it was an old gun. Very nice work and completely convincing. Cool beans man.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2019, 07:58:07 PM »
Thanks guys!  It's a really difficult rifle to photograph, and (imho) it actually looks more believable in-hand than it does in the photos, although I'll nitpick everything until the day I die.

It's very difficult (for me anyway) to explain how I see this type of work.  I fully understand that probably 50% of people hate them, thinking I'm nothing but a faker.  I view it in my own mind as storytelling, and it's one of the reasons I call it an "art piece" as in my experience most people interested in something like this are not buying it as a shooter but more typically as comparable to a piece of art like a painting or sculpture; something you would not expect to "do" anything.  I make sure they're well-marked on most interior surfaces, and frankly if any buyer requested I sign it externally (and then age the signature I assume), I surely would do so.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline craigos

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2019, 09:07:37 PM »
fake or not - its beautiful

Offline looper

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2019, 09:39:26 PM »
I'm one of 50% that loves this type of artistic expression. It sure gets the imaginative juices flowing.

Offline Jim Spray

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 09:41:31 PM »
Very nice work! I don't think they have to be old to be original!

Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2019, 10:26:41 PM »
Hi Guys,
I am going to be a fly in the ointment.  We try to keep comments about things for sale focused on the sale process not commentary about the item. The reason is that we want to make sure a seriously interested party does not have to wade through potentially pages of comments to express their interest in the gun.  Some newer folks may not be aware of private messaging and use the listing post as means of first contact with the seller.  Our purpose is to help that connection to happen.  Eric is certainly free to post the gun in the "Contemporary" section and attract and address comments not related to the sale there.  We do this because there were instances in which a buyer missed their chance because the seller did not see the inquiry from the buyer because of other comments.

dave
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: FS: Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2019, 11:59:56 PM »
Hi Guys,
I am going to be a fly in the ointment.  We try to keep comments about things for sale focused on the sale process not commentary about the item. The reason is that we want to make sure a seriously interested party does not have to wade through potentially pages of comments to express their interest in the gun.  Some newer folks may not be aware of private messaging and use the listing post as means of first contact with the seller.  Our purpose is to help that connection to happen.  Eric is certainly free to post the gun in the "Contemporary" section and attract and address comments not related to the sale there.  We do this because there were instances in which a buyer missed their chance because the seller did not see the inquiry from the buyer because of other comments.

dave
I just got busted for this over the helmet sale....Let's move the gun over to the   "Contemporary" page as well  so it can be discussed as it deserves.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2019, 04:25:27 AM »
Eric marked the for sale ad as sold and requested a moderator to remove ad per ALR rules.

Maybe he is willing to post photos in this thread if you ask nicely.
Dennis
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 03:24:28 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2019, 05:01:06 AM »
Oops sorry didn't realize there were no photos here now - kind of funny discussing something with no photos. 

I'm just very happy and honored that folks appreciate what I try to accomplish sometimes!  So thanks.























Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline WKevinD

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2019, 05:13:17 AM »
I'm a particular fan of the way you worked the brass aging.

Kevin
PEACE is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.  Thomas Jefferson

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2019, 03:31:45 PM »
Thanks for moving that over, it's worthy of more study and conversation. Being a "Faker" myself, although not on EK's level, I know most people have no idea how much work goes into something like this. It's very difficult to produce a convincing product. Thanks EK for agreeing to the move so we could discuss. I could probably sit down with you and that gun for at least a day and pick your brain about your techniques.
 How do you think your gun relates to this one? Or not at all? Sort of has the same feel to me. Might have been made in the same area only mush earlier?








NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline jim alford

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2019, 05:17:26 PM »
Eric,put me on the definite LIKE list.It makes me curious what inspires such a piece and then then have the ability to build it in such a convincing manner.

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2019, 05:21:32 PM »
I cant seem to find pictures of the discussed gun. Can someone point this old dumb redneck in the right direction please.
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Offline Greg Pennell

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2019, 05:39:11 PM »
Pictures aren’t showing up for me either. I believe the gun in question is on the Contemporary Makers Blog.

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2019/08/blue-mountain-berks-co-rifle.html

Greg
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Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2019, 06:17:32 PM »
Thanks G.Pennell.  Just took a gander at it. I like it LOTS. Great Job Eric. I love your aging process
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2019, 07:24:14 PM »
As far as the 50% one way or the other-- here's an aspect of fakaging I like:  It showcases the makers' of such work skills which can be applied to restorations of genuine antiques (if that is also something they do), to help preserve original pieces looking -as they were-.  AND I trust that all good men and fair ladies mark their works and restos properly, just as Mr. Kettenburg does.

Besides--nothing like this level of work went into that "Hawken" fake that brought 12k recently.  Nope, and who knows if it wasn't marked by the "artist" internally (being so far off, maybe wasn't felt necessary).

Sure, money is tempting but INTEGRITY is priceless, and I think there's no shortage of that around here. 

Also the best way to learn to spot a forgery (when a fake is passed as original) is to learn and understand the art of aging such that one can detect the subtle differences in patina earned and patina applied.  It's a little funny now when I see "aged" furniture or art made of metal and wood my mind is always sorting out how they did what to get this or that effect and how it might have been done otherwise. 

Fine bit of work here.

Hold to the Wind

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2019, 09:49:41 PM »
Eric - man that's a great gun, may be my favorite out of all your work I've seen so far. You've taken everything I like about the best of the old ones including the "story" (boy there's a word that covers a whole lot of ground) and used it to create something fresh. So well done.

I like your explanation of what you're doing. Newly built pieces like this one whose stories include the passage of time and the effects of use and the elements are bound to be misunderstood by some. In a way I regard pieces like these as artistic representations the old guns themselves AND all they bore witness to. They may be likened to modern interpretive paintings of historical events. 

Offline vanu

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Re: Discussion of Berks Co. 'Blue Mountain' rifle ca. 1820
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2019, 12:07:29 AM »
Eric, I had a WOW! moment when i saw this on Contemporary Makers...thought it was one of those sleeper auction pieces that so seldom yield anything of merit...then to find it's modern is really cool! I had a Jack Brooks rifle he made for himself in 1987, without the signature and date, i swear it looked like a 1770's relic, including the bore (which performed well); this fits that wonderful tradition...love it...spectacular work!

Mike: that "Running Deer" rifle looks very much like the tradition of carving and architecture coming out of the Rockbridge County Virginia area in the 1770-80 period; but who really knows for sure...lots of influences up and down the Great Road in the 18th century.

Bruce Larson
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 02:22:13 PM by Tim Crosby »