Trying to Understand a Hand Scraped Finish

[Nhgrants]

My hand scraping on a cherry stock seems to leave a lot of texture.
I also see tare out of fine grain.  Is this normal. I had thought that card scrapers
Were suppose to leave a fine surface.  Thanks

[Hungry Horse]

Some cherry stocks have a tendency to chip out when being worked with hand tools. In my opinion cherry is not the best wood to do a scraped finish on. Good hard maple, or a dense piece of walnut, would be my choice for a hand scraped stock.

  Hungry Horse

[Jeff Durnell]

Is the scraper properly sharpened?

Even if properly sharpened, a rougher surface can occur if it is continually used in the same direction. Try changing scraping directions. Depending on whether there's room, and the grain and growth ring directions, I may change angle of use every few strokes. With scrapers, it's better to work to prevent a rough surface than it is to remove it afterwards.

[Stophel]

A sharp scraper may give you a "texture", but it shouldn't be rough.  You need to be wary of the grain direction too, and scrape it the right way.  You still shouldn't get tear out.  If your scrapers are sharp, it may be the wood itself.  Cherry is often not very hard, and that may be the source of your problem.

[rich pierce]

It’s important to watch grain direction. On final finish scraping I use glass microscope slides.

[t.caster]

I got some microscope slides from Rich in trade, years ago and still have a bunch to use! I love them for finishing up, nothing is sharper & cleaner!.

[Bob Roller]

Some cherry stocks have a tendency to chip out when being worked with hand tools. In my opinion cherry is not the best wood to do a scraped finish on. Good hard maple, or a dense piece of walnut, would be my choice for a hand scraped stock.

  Hungry Horse

HH is right. Many years ago we had a fine gunmaker here in Kenova WV,about 5 miles
from me.His name was Glen Napier also known as "Fireball".He built a beautiful half
stock gun from cherry wood and said it was "Chippyfied". That term fit right in with
his normal Appalachian vernacular and he was an inspiration to me and others.
He died a few years ago at age 96.

Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

I used to just break glass and find a useful piece with a little curve to it.  Bit of tape over the non-working edges helps, or they will work on your hide.
Go light when scraping, and watch the grain, don't run into it.
Burnishing afterwards helps mellow it down as well, NH.

R.

[Mauser06]

Like the others said, cherry can be soft and a bugger to work with.   


A few things I've ran into....what is the humidity like where the stock is??   I had a softer piece of maple and my basement got a little damp and humid.  The wood became very difficult to work with.  Fans, dehumidifiers etc.   I also seemed to have luck taking it outside on very low humidity days and letting it soak up sun.   I left everything in place and didn't have any warpage or cracking...though I suppose if the wood actually has soaked up moisture that you run a risk of drying too quick like that...


Have you whiskered it?   Sometimes if run into uncooperative spots, getting it damp and letting it dry and whiskering it a couple times seems to help.   


Could just be the wood too....I tried working a piece of cherry to restock TC parts and it gave me fits to the point I put it away.   So I never did get to scraping lol. 

[smart dog]

Hi,
If you are getting tear out, your scraper is dull. Grain direction matters but sharpness is key.  I used to use glass long ago and it worked fine.  Now I use a combination of wood scrapers and knives. Carpet scraper blades also work very well.  Buy a package from a hardware store (I think there are 5 blades per package) and use them just like wood scrapers. You can sharpen them as you would a knife blade on a stone or ceramic. I recently finished a cherry stocked gun with scrapers. The biggest challenge for me was that some spots scraped too easily risking taking off too much wood. Scraping is not the mindless task that sanding can be.

dave

[Don Steele]

It’s important to watch grain direction. On final finish scraping I use glass microscope slides.

Rich,
Do you use the edge as it comes on those microscope slides, or do you make a fresh break for a sharper edge.??
I've handled a lot of microscope slides...They are pretty thin. That indicates to me you're not applying much pressure for that final scraping.
Is that correct..??
Thank you.

[t.caster]

Very little pressure! They will still break, but that will usually produce a curved edge that is also handy. I try to hold it diagonal to the direction of travel and support it in the middle for less breakage. I still use a variety of scrapers with handles and cabinet scrapers and ones I have shaped from box cutter blades, etc.

[Mike Brooks]

Some of my own personal observations about scraping, take them for what you will.
Soft woods don't scrape well. I really don't like the results of a scraper finish on most red maple, pretty hairy. "Most" good hard maple scrapes well as long as you pay attention to what you're doing and have a sharp scraper. Although you can remove wood and do some shaping with scrapers, when you're finishing your goal is to remove as little wood as possible, your main concern is the very surface of the wood and getting rid of the whiskers. Most all of the above can be applied to sanding as well. Many people sand the bigeminies out of a stock leaving their trigger guard and other mounts standing proud of the wood. A light touch is best with both methods, don't get carried away. I use both scraping and sanding together on a stock. I use the scraper to get rid of any left over tool marks then move on to fresh sharp sand paper, not backed with anything but my hand.

[rich pierce]

The glass slides are just for final finishing. Like Tom said, they break and chip. I use one edge then when I see micro chips I put tape on it and switch to another edge.

[Dan Fruth]

When you fellas use scrapers, do you turn a burr on the edge, or use a hardened piece of steel with a 90 degree stoned edge and face? Hope that makes sense.

[Acer Saccharum]

a lot of good stuff has been said about scraping above.

A dull scraper will compress wood, rather than cut. Even a sharp scraper will compress wood a little, depending on the wood quality. This compressed wood will swell once the wood gets moistened in the finishing process, so a second or third scraping is usually required.

I find a newly sharpened scraper works best, and sharpen it frequently. I draw file the end of the scraper square, then stone the end smooth. I stone any burrs off the faces of the scraper. The result I want is sharp 90 degree corners on my scraper, without any raggedness to them. Then I set the scraper vertical in the vise, and burnish the corners over with about a 20 degree angle. This burnishing forms minute 'hooks' that really cut super fine shavings.

A scraper can be used for stock shaping after rasping, that's how effective at wood removal they can be.

[smallpatch]

To add to the above..... the thinner the scraper, the finer the finish.
For shaping I use a thick scraper, (like Stew-Mac), then thinner commercial type, then carpet knife blades after whispering.  This usually leaves a final finish when done lightly.
The biggest factor is the hardness of the wood itself.  Some wood is fuzzy, ( for lack of a better term), and just won't scrape well.

[rich pierce]

Dane, does whispering help?  Darn that auto spell.

[smallpatch]

Rich,
On the final pass, you have to be VEWY quiet.  Just like with hunting wabbits!

[Stophel]

I've never done the burnish-the-scraper-edge-into-a-hook thing.  Way too much work for me, and it's way too easily damaged.   I'm too clumsy and haphazard, and that would not last long at all. I just file the edge of the scraper a little bit sharper than square and go.

[bama]

Any good sharp edge (emphasis on sharp) on just about any object will make a good scraper. I use my chisels quite often as a scraper for small areas. For doing wood removal during the shaping process I use cabinet scrapers that I have modified, these I put a hooked edge on. I have a set the Jerry Fisher lollipop shaped scrapers that I got from Brownell's, to sharpen these you grind the edges to 90 degrees.

Scraping does not leave a completely smooth surface. The finished surface of many original rifles will show evidence of being scraped because you can still see the marks left by the scraping process. If you are very diligent in you scraping process you can eliminate many of the major scraping process but I don't think you can obtain a perfectly smooth finish by this process, or I should say I have not been able to achieve that.

Like the others have said scrapers need to be sharp, varying amount of wood can be removed depending on how much pressure is applied to the scraper, always scrape with the grain of the wood. Sometimes you will find that there will be soft spots in the stock that will create a divot. Be careful with these areas and scrape across the grain in these areas this will help even out the wood around the low spot. Scraping across the grain will also help eliminate the ripple effect that scraping can give to curly maple. I like this look but some do not. Also if you have a spot that wants to be fuzzy scraping across the grain can sometimes help in this situation. If you can get rid of the fuzzies with the scraper then I go to sand paper in this spot and keep on with the scraper everywhere else.

I have not used Cherry so I can't speak to its scraping process but I do scrape everything else. I find scraping to be much quicker than sanding and I feel that it gives a more traditional looking finish and feel to a rifle. Those looking for a finish smooth as a piece of glass, scraping is not the finishing process to use.

Just my two cents

[WadePatton]

I've never done the burnish-the-scraper-edge-into-a-hook thing.  Way too much work for me, and it's way too easily damaged.   I'm too clumsy and haphazard, and that would not last long at all. I just file the edge of the scraper a little bit sharper than square and go.

Mr. Sellers just put up a scraper sharpening video that's extremely easy to follow and replicate.  I've tried a few different techniques for sharpening scrapers, and used all sorts of metal and glass for scraping (burred and not). Wasn't able to get a good edge before, but following Paul's example I found I could feel the edge turning through my "burnisher" (back of gouge).  This was a pivotal moment in my scraper sharpening. 

I say turn that burr and make shavings proper -if your bit of wood will allow it.  Also buying a new inexpensive set of Sheffield* card scrapers was a great tool purchase for me, of mostly vintage and refurbished gear.  Turning to turn the burr proper added a new "trick" to my sharpening skillset.

This is on his pay site, but viewable with free account (not found on YT where most of his freebies wind up). https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/videos/card-scraper-sharpening/

*origin, not brand. I think they are sold with different name brands, but Sheffield made steel has long been a favorite of mine (especially in shaving razors).

[Nhgrants]

Thanks for all the replies which have been extremely helpful.
The final surface that I'm after is not perfectly smooth but rather
A scraped one that was done in workmanship manner.
I'm try to figure out what that looks and feels like. 

The projects I'm working on are two northwest type trade guns.
Am I correct that originals would likely not have been sanded
Rather finished by scraping? 
Thanks

[smart dog]

Hi,
They may have just been file finished.

dave

[Stophel]

Years ago, I got an early 18th century German bird gun with its original surface.  This gun was eye-opening for me to see how things were really done 200+ years ago.  Other guns I have seen since generally display similar surfaces.  Scraper marks are quite evident (along with file marks all over the metal).  The surface is not rough, but it is sort of "faceted" (with some scratches ).  The wrist is not round, but has tiny straight facets as the scraper was drawn straight down the wrist.  It's not really visible at a distance, but on close inspection it is.  Now, I don't like to leave mine that obviously scraped, but it was done.  I would expect that the average trade gun would not have all that fine a finished surface, but these are not something I have studied at all.