Author Topic: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone  (Read 21107 times)

Offline hanshi

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2009, 06:06:27 PM »
Not sure about wiping the flint with my thumb. Tried that today and had to reach for yet another bandaid. Good think I buy them by the 'Gross'.

Oh yeah!  The old thumb wipe.  He, he, he, he.............ouch!  Been there; done that.
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2009, 06:57:57 PM »
Going all the way across removes perhaps 3/64" in the length of the flint, and you're right, it gets shorter every time so I don't do it less it needs it.

Supporting the under side of the flint with your finger puts pressure against the bottom of the flint, and causes longer thinner flakes to come away.  I support the entire weight of the muzzle with the index finger under the flint, and the rest of the fingers under the lock.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 07:59:29 PM by Daryl »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2009, 05:04:51 PM »
I knap with the back of a knife, brass powder measure, what ever will work.
Forcing the face of the frizzen against the flint will often restore the edge.
Almost anything will work.
When I started shooting a FL I had never heard of a diamond lap or a green wheel. But I can see a use for the green wheel in thinning a thick flint.

Dan
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Daryl

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2009, 05:21:50 PM »
Green wheels work well for knocking off a bad hump, or as Taylor noted, gluing on a piece of pine and dressing it down with a few strokes of a file. Also, a tab of leather can be hot-glued onto the flint to even out the cock-jaw purchase. All period 'fixes ;D.

I often press a flint against the frizzen to knapp it quickly as Dan suggested - learned that right here at ALR some time ago - fastest way to get a flint back into operation, but sometimes doesn't work.
 

Offline frogwalking

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2009, 05:34:19 AM »
Being Frog, I am pretty green here myself.  ;D   I have found this site to have in general, the least offensive and most helpful folks of any site I have been around.  Some of Leatherbelly's comments are so funny in his off hand manner I have gotten to usually look to see if he has chimed in.  When in Rome, do as the Romans.  Perhaps the chap who took offence will reconsider and become a devotee.  To my own ignorance there is no limit,  yet you guys have been polite in your answers to my dumb questions.  For that, you have my thanks.
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Harnic

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2009, 05:43:23 AM »
Frog, you should see Leatherbelly in person!  He's one of several characters that keep me coming back to the Heffley Creek Rendezvous in south central BC Canada every year.  I consider him a good friend now & very much enjoy his antics around the campfires of Heffley.  See you in a month LB!  :D

Naphtali

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2009, 09:11:55 PM »
In Smithsonian Magazine, October 1986, is an article titled, "Cro-Magnon hunters were really us, working out strategies for survival." On page 77 is a paragraph that I quote in its entirety:

"The newcomers developed an entirely different style. For one thing, toolmaking became considerably more sophisticated. The Neanderthals tended to be local-minded opportunists, relying mainly on flint sources close to home base, using a technique that yielded thick flakes and an estimated 40 inches of cutting edge per pound of flint. The Cro-Magnons were more selective, often obtaining special fine-grained and colorful flints from quarries as much as 250 miles away, and their punched-blade technique yielded 40 feet of cutting edge per pound. Furthermore, they improved on nature by heat-treating the material. They learned that flint raised to temperatures of 400 to 1,100 degrees F and cooled slowly becomes more elastic, easier to work."

Would this technique allow knapping and/or grinding flints to a more regular, durable cutting surface without otherwise harming the flint?

Does the flint's enhanced flexibility degrade its ability to function as steel scraper?

Does flexibility of heat treat disappear after specific amount of time?

Has anyone used heat-treated flints? With what results?

Does this technique work with other materials, such as granite? Granite, were it to retain a regular scraping surface, would be a significantly more durable scraping agent than flint. Since I hear nothing about "granite locks" or "obsidian locks," I assume these minerals have problems when being used as scraping agent that flint does not. But I have no clue what the problems are.

Daryl

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2009, 06:24:55 PM »
Frogwalking - - LB's a hoot - sometimes more than a hoot at rondyvous - and on our weekly shoots on the trail.  Seems he's making the switch to more accurate firearms too - hahahahahaha! - guess smoothbores don't rule anymore. ;D  He finds hitting more rewarding that near misses, far misses and just plain missing.  His abandonment of smoothbores is most unfortunate for us of meagre skill - he's a contender with that little .40 of his.

As to flints - I understand they are more easily worked if tempered (drawn in temper), but don't know if I've tried any. Rich's flints are hard and spark well as such. I don't think the English Fuller flints are tempered and they are good sparkers as well. 

While I don't know if tempered flints spark as well, I cannot see any softening of the flint as being a good thing. just an opinion.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2009, 09:08:22 PM »
Tempering makes many forms of flint easier to work and may give a more glossy texture.  It really helps most for pressure flaking, which is essential for arrowheads and any fine work.  English flint is glossy and easily pressure flaked without heat treating.  The flint/chert I use cannot be pressure flaked w/o heat treating, but I don't heat treat for percussion work, which is what I use to make the flints.  I like them tough enough that a thin flint (more likely to stay sharp as it wears) won't shatter.
Andover, Vermont

Leatherbelly

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2009, 10:27:51 PM »
Well guys, it's not looking good for me to make Heffley this year.Financial woes. As far as smoothbores go,lately I can't hit the broadside of a barn if I'm standing inside it. Frustrating,so I'll probably unload both of them.

Seven

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2009, 10:29:52 PM »
I've purchased heat treated English flint for arrowhead knapping.  I've also used it in my flintlock.  I've gone well over 70 shots without having to change flints, probably much more than that.  I don’t have much to compare it to though.  In fact the only non-heat treated flint/chert that I’ve used in my flintlock was a store bought agate when I first started a few years ago.  And that was just terrible at sparking in comparison.  Heat treating of flints or cherts does not wear off.  It changes the crystalline structure just slightly to make them (the crystals) separate just a bit easier.   Granite has a much larger grain structure and, even if heat treated, will come out lumpy and have a very ragged edge, no good.  When you are talking about flexibility in stone you are talking about minute amounts.  Even unheated flint is flexible, to an extent.  Obsidian is too brittle/fragile to use with a flint lock.  It simply shatters.  Obsidian is volcanic glass.  If you want to see what it does in a flintlock, take a piece of window glass put it in there and fire away.  I’ve never done it, but I don’t want to either. Here is a web site with some great descriptions of the grain structure and fracture mechanics that are ideal for knapping  http://id-archserve.ucsb.edu/Anth3/Courseware/LithicTech/3_Fracture_Mechanics.html
Does that answer your questions?  If not let me know.
-Chad

Naphtali

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2009, 11:02:03 PM »
Chad:

Many thanks for the link. The more I think about my question that arises from the Smithsonian paragraph, the more I consider how desirable would be obsidian as striking mineral. Obsidian is used by [some] surgeons as scalpel blades precisely for benefits that might accrue to rock lock shooters (I think "rock lock" is an all-encompassing phrase?) -- sharpness not available from any steel or many minerals, ability to create sufficiently regular edge to be used as surgical scalpel, and significantly more durable edge than any steel blade.

The idea behind ceramic flints -- durability -- has always appealed to me, but ubiquity of flint and scarcity of shaped ceramic had put me off. Its possible this mineral can be the "magic" rock. And cost of trying it is no different from that of flint, agate, chert, et al. -- if it is knappable to similar degree as what rock locks commonly use.

I can use my toaster oven, the one I use to heat treat cast bullets, for the experiment.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2009, 02:25:19 AM »
I think that heat treating English flints and Rich's excellent "American" flints, is a bad idea.  The stone as it is knapped for flints, is hard and tough.  The harder the better.  Heat treating will soften the stone perhaps a little, and definitely make it flake easier, which you do not want.  A heat treated flint would not last long, m'thinks.  Obsidian is useless for a gunflint.  So is granite.  You need a hard stone that will break with a concoidal fracture, but hard is critical.  Obsidian flakes easily, and produces a molecular edge.  I've read that it is 50 X sharper than steel.  That is likely based on the premise of the finer edge on the stone.  A flaked stone projectile point is truly a wonderous thing.   The first black bear I shot with a longbow was with an arrow head that I faked from English flint.  The bear bled out in less than five seconds.  i had cut through the aorta one inch above the heart with full penetration.
I have hundreds of English flints and I use them lots, but when I want real performance, I use one of Rich's.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Harnic

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2009, 07:31:19 AM »
Well guys, it's not looking good for me to make Heffley this year.Financial woes. As far as smoothbores go,lately I can't hit the broadside of a barn if I'm standing inside it. Frustrating,so I'll probably unload both of them.

Geez LB, sorry to hear you might not be there.  At this point I'm about 50/50 too.  !@*%&@ health probs...  Looks like the whole thing is up in the air with our dry weather.  If it doesn't rain hard there & soon, I can't see them allowing any shooting or even cooking stoves.  :(

Back on topic here, I find Rich's flints very durable, they throw lots of spark, & are easy to knapp with a small copper rod, gently applied to the edge.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 06:54:36 PM by Harnic »

Colonial Riflesmith

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2009, 10:52:59 AM »
Personally, I've never tried a stone. My grandpappy taught ne to knap many years ago, and I still do it the same way. Heck, when you're out hunting, you can pick things off the ground to chip your flint. I believe in the KISS princible. Why make things harder then thay have to be.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 10:54:25 AM by Colonial Riflesmith »

Offline frogwalking

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2009, 04:38:43 AM »
I guess this is sorta on topic. I was watching "Master and Commander" on the DVD Sunday.  During a great sea duel, the two ships locked in mortal combat, borders on both vesels, one guy pointed his cannon through the gunport of the French (frog?) ship and pulled the lanyard on the flint igniter.  A border shoved his hand between the cock and frizzen to stop the carnage.  The look on  his face when the flint struck bone was pretty cool.    :o  I like realistic movies.  Some nice flint smooth bore pistols in there too. 
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Colonial Riflesmith

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Re: Flints, Knapping Vs. EZ Lap Diamond Stone
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2009, 10:37:59 AM »
I didn't perticurly care for that movie. I'm not a big Russel Crow fan, but I like watching those movies to evaluate the historical accuracy and the weapons used in the film. That was a cool scene though.