Author Topic: I love Swiss 3fff  (Read 1689 times)

Offline recurve

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I love Swiss 3fff
« on: September 20, 2019, 03:08:52 AM »
Finally got a good day to shoot(wife out of the house, I shoot in the back yard> cool low wind)
So I was at Dixons not long  ago and picked up Swiss 3 FFF (I've been shooting Swiss 2FF) so here we go!  All shooting supported 50 yards . 
Flintlock# 1->50>>-> 36 in green mnt barrel small siler lock with my home knapped white flint(Richard ) mutton tallow .490 ball round .020 denim 70grns 3f swiss  6 shots






« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 11:28:30 PM by recurve »

Offline recurve

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 03:15:54 AM »
Rifle # 2 Nate McKenzie early Lancaster .50 44 inch Getz barrel(round rifle) same home flint for first 4 shots then broke, French flint  mutton lube same patch ball and load (just cut square patches to tell from gmnt) 7 shots  golden age lock (chambers)and a round patch to compare


and the old load 2ff swiss











« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 11:30:31 PM by recurve »

Offline recurve

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 03:29:41 AM »
the guns #1

#2

I got a hotter spark& faster light of main  charge from the white home flint but not as durable(I need to learn how to knap better) I forgot with the mutton no wipe between shots needed and very little fauling.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 03:38:30 AM by recurve »

Offline Marcruger

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 10:00:46 PM »
My experience has been that Green Mountain barrels reeeeally shoot.  They are not fussy either.  I have one in the safe for my next gun. 

Swiss is good stuff too.  Depending on the weather here, it can sometimes dry hard versus Goex.  I think it is better powder than Goex, other than that weather issue.  Bet that 3f cracks a little sharper than the 2f too.  I have found that 1-1/2 Swiss gives about the same performance as 2f Goex.  Otherwise, I back off the charge maybe 10% when going from Goex to Swiss to get the same velocities. 

Looks like you are onto some good shooting and having fun.  More power to you.  :-) 

One last thing I will share is my range target.  I use day-glo poster paper, and black poster paper triangle.  The triangle perches right on top of the front sight visually, and is a fine aiming point at 50 or 100 yards.  It really helps my accuracy, but it doesn't look like you are wanting in that department. 


God Bless,   Marc

Offline recurve

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 11:44:00 PM »
might try that shape (can't see my silver front  :o blade on white paper, so love the color)

Offline recurve

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2019, 07:02:35 AM »
The 36 gmnt barrel the 3fff swiss seems normal noise level BUT the Getz 44 barrel the shot heard around the world(Lexington Mass.) might have been swiss 3fff a real crack sound. First one I checked to see if my ear plug had fallen out , :o nope still there just loud*

Offline Daryl

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2019, 08:29:15 PM »
Size AND shape are very important to what you get for size of group.  Generally speaking, the smaller to target 'spot', to a point, the better/tighter will be the group.
Marc's black V is a very good case in "point", pun intended. The inverted black V draws the attention to the tiny point.('course, he's cheating, using a cap gun ;D)
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline wolf

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2019, 04:48:21 PM »
I like swiss in my 40, it is accurate. but after about 5 shots it develops a hard ring about 3in before the ball seats. if you do not swab between shots it can be very hard to seat. 2f goex doesn't do that at all in my jaeger. I am going to get some 3f goex and try it in my 40,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline recurve

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2019, 07:54:25 PM »
I had the ring problem when using goex ff&fff and less with 2ff swiss. But not so far with swiss fff .But I also change my lube to mutton(100%) from spit or gato( mutton 2/4, 1/4 bees, wax 1/4 paraffin) the ring is gone or soft and I don't need to wipe. seems to be the same pressure needed for loading after the first shot .

Offline B.Barker

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2019, 04:37:44 AM »
I have had the same problem with swiss powder causing hard fouling in my barrel. I was using deer tallow for my lube. Goex with the same lube gave me soft powder fouling and could shoot plenty without wiping the barrel. The swiss seemed to leave less fouling but it was hard as a rock.

Offline wolf

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2019, 04:16:15 PM »
yea I am fixin to order some 3f goex. the problem is I have a pound and a half of swiss I need to burn,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline Bob McBride

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2019, 05:55:49 PM »
yea I am fixin to order some 3f goex. the problem is I have a pound and a half of swiss I need to burn,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sounds like challenge time. Can you burn off a pound and a half before taking delivery of your Goex? I’d give it a shot....
-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Offline recurve

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2019, 12:28:58 AM »
if you live in Pa I would trade my Goex 3&2 f for your swiss

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2019, 04:27:33 AM »
With the Swiss powder.  It burns at a temperature than that of GOEX.  It can be fairly critical in the load volume for the caliber.  When you see a glassy ring in front of where the ball sat on the charge you might want to reduce the size of the load a bit.  That hard glass-like film that forms on the bore walls shows that during powder combustion the temperature of the gases behind the ball are over 1650 degrees.  Which is about the melting point of the potassium carbonate that is a major solid product of combustion.  Also. The temperature of the powder charge when you fire it plays a part in this.  Which is why some guys keep their powder in a cooler before charging it to the gun. When you shoot the gun around 80 F or higher the powder burns a bit hotter which gives the problem.  If the powder is kept cool before shooting their is less chance of the glass-like films in the bore.

Offline varsity07840

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2019, 04:05:44 PM »
I shoot Swiss 3F in several rifles, but I do have one fainter that doesn't like it. It has a touch hole location that required a groove cut into the face of the breech plug. Hard fouling collects there after several shots and causes hangfires.

Offline hudson

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2019, 10:51:14 PM »
I have has mixed results with Swiss verses Goex. I shoot mostly Silhouette so work with Farley heavy loads of 2f for the distance. I find from a bench at 100 yards Swiss has a very slight edge over Goex and is repeatable. On the down side from the heavy loads I get a hard glaze in the barrel hard to deal with so I stick to Goex. I believe Mad Monk has covered this hard glaze problem more than once.

Offline coupe

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2019, 06:06:38 AM »
I agree with hudson, I've shot a few pounds of swiss and found a slight advantage over goex but not enough IMHO to pay that much. I tried grafs & sons, which is a wano product, repackaged under their name same as schutzen. Today I shot both at 50 yds. and found grafs dropped 2" ok group but low compared to goex, this repeated in both tries with the same patch, lube and powder charge 5 shots each on 4 tests. Also goex was cleaner! After each shot the barrel was cleaned and the same measure was used on all shots.
I'll stick with goex I find it the best for the price.

Offline alacran

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2019, 01:39:04 PM »
Most of the competition shooting I do now a days is done offhand. I shoot out West and in the Midwest at many different ranges . All ranges are different and there are so many variables in configuration, that any given rifle will have a different point of impact at each different range. That is why I take practice shots and preferably shoot a re entry target to figure out where I'm to hold. I like Old Eynsford 3f for my target flinter, but I will use Goex 3f or Schutzen 3f if that is what I have. Those practice shots determine where I will hod as well, with the different powders. It is always good to best someone who is using powder that costs a third more than what I'm shooting.

Offline coupe

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2019, 02:15:08 AM »
Tried goex 3f at 50 yds today stayed at 2 1/2" high with 80 grs. 2 nice shots. Moved out to 100 yds. 80 grs. put them in the black, one next to the cntr. and one just below it. Real good for iron sights but both on the bench range won't allow off hand. So the 54 is up to snuff and ready for it's first season. In between I still have the 50 cal to play with to get it to shoot like the 54. sticking with goex for sure.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 03:13:14 AM »
It,s some what interesting that so many shooters have the hard ring of fouling when using Swiss 3f. The Mad Monk had a good post on that very topic IIRC saying that the Swiss develops more heat as it burns hotter. I used to get a small amount of that in a 40 cal and switched to 2f Swiss and it solved my problem. I use 1&1/2 Swiss in every thing over 40 cal and never have that problem. Patch lube might also be a factor. Years ago it was considered WRONG to use anything like a 3f in bores of 50 and above and when using Swiss I,m thinking it might still be wise.

Offline Daryl

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2019, 07:40:00 PM »
Good points, smylee grouch.  I found back in the 70's, I got better accuracy with 2F - than 3F in GO, C&H, Dupont, Meteor, etc, in my .50's.
It's still my go-to powder for .50 and up, however I did work up loads in the .40 and .45 with 2F as well as the normal 3F I was using in those.
The accuracy loads with 2F, consistently required 10gr. more powder, than the 3F accuracy loads.
I have not tried Swiss powders in my ML rifles, however do use it (1 1/2F) in a suppository-rifle.
I also have some Old Enisford 3F to try in the .50.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 03:24:22 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline wolf

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Re: I love Swiss 3fff
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2019, 04:24:15 PM »
well a couple of weeks ago I got some 3f goex for my 40 it solved the problem of the hard ring. the swiss seams to group tighter but to hack with fighting that hard ring after 3 or 5 shots! I wish I would have got the ole eynsford 3f, I use it in 2f in my  62 jaeger and it is super accurate and as clean as swiss and leaves no hard ring,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,