Author Topic: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine  (Read 5926 times)

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6898
Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« on: October 02, 2019, 03:44:18 AM »
Hi,
I always have several projects up and running at the same time.  While I am working out my plan for a project during the evenings, I am working on a different project in my shop during the day.  I guess that makes me a full time gun maker?  I am building this project on spec and will sell it either on line or at Dixons. I would like it to go to someone who can use and appreciate the historical details I incorporate rather than someone who just wants a smoothbore to plink with.  I am building a British pattern 1760 light infantry fusil from a parts set by The Rifle Shoppe.  I bought the parts set (I hesitate to call it a kit for reasons you will soon appreciate) from a third party who had it for a long time but could never get to it and felt a little intimidated by it.  The parts set includes a black walnut precarved stock.  I am going to be blunt, I do not like precarves at all especially when you are trying to recreate historical details.  I also have to build the lock, which is fine. I thought maybe some of you might like to see the process so tighten down your lug nuts and away we go.

The British pattern 1760 light infantry fusil was a direct result of war in America.  George Augustus Howe, his brother William, Henry Bouquet, and Thomas Gage all understood, based on their experience during the French and Indian War, that the British Army needed lightly encumbered, mobile troops, light infantry,  to act as scouts and flankers during campaigns in the forests of North America.  They wanted those troops armed with a light and handy carbine.  Eventually, British ordnance responded by developing the pattern 1760 light infantry fusil, which was based on an earlier design by Lord Louden in 1745. Unfortunately, production of the gun came too late for the French and Indian War.  It may have been issued to some troops fighting on the continent of Europe during the waning days of the 7-Years War and some others might have been issued to soldiers in America during Pontiac's uprising but the majority of guns were placed in storage and not issued.  Then in 1771, William Howe reconstituted the light infantry companies that were disbanded after the French and Indian War. Those "Light Bobs" were issued the pattern 1760 fusil.  Light companies sent to America just before and during the early hostilities of the Rev War were issued the fusils. They were prominent among the Light Bobs during Lexington and Concord, Breed's Hill, Long Island, New York, Trenton, Princeton, Brandywine, White Marsh, and Paoli. If the "shot heard round the world" came from a British gun, it might have been a light infantry fusil.  The light troops of the 52nd regiment facing John Stark and Thomas Knowlton at the rail fence during Breed's Hill carried the pattern 1760.  By 1778, most were used up owing to their light construction and light infantry were issued with standard short land pattern muskets.  The key traits of the light infantry fusil are carbine bore (65-66 caliber), 42" barrel, slimmed stock, simplified butt plate, trigger guard, and ramrod pipes, wooden ramrod, muzzle band rather than cap, unique thumb plate, and carbine lock. The gun weighs 7-8 pounds compared with the standard 11 lbs of the long land musket. It feels and handles more like a fowler than musket.  The downside it that it is much more fragile than a standard musket and was easily ruined during service.   
So here we go.  The TRS parts are good quality for the most part but with QC problems on some.  There are shrinkage issues probably from the casting process.  The precarved stock should be Ok but it has the precision of a 5-year old kid with a router.  The machine cut mortices will be fine but thankfully they are well undersized.  This is no Kibler kit.  The routing around the butt plate is a mess and  I believe I can squeak the butt plate on without losing too much LOP owing to the crude routing.  The ramrod channel and hole are too small for the 5/16" wooden rod.  It looks like they were routed for a steel rod, which is not correct.  They did not drill the ramrod hole, rather it is routed in from the bottom of the ramrod channel.


The brass parts show casting shrinkage compared to original dimensions. They are all a little too small and unfortunately, the machine inlets prevent changing that.  I'll just have to suck it up and do the best I can but this experience again reinforces my belief that rough stock blanks are better, particularly if you want to reproduce historical details.  I base many of my historical details on Bailey's book on British patterns.  You can see on the pages showing outlines of original hardware how different the reproduced hardware is. 




The first job was to get the barrel inletted fully. The machine inlet is only partial and the whole length of the channel needs to be worked to get the barrel in. The muzzle of the stock had to be cut off at the correct length, then the breech inlet deeper and square to the stock. Round scrapers and my Gunline round barrel float do the job nicely.  Next up is the breech plug.  The barrel is beautiful and well finished but the breech plug tang is too short and too wide. The tang needs to be lengthened about 1/8".  That does not sound like much but it will make a huge difference in where the tang bolt goes and its position relative to the end of the tang.  Also the bolster on the tang is too massive and the angled back is a inletting nightmare.  So I cut away much of the bolster and squared up the back to make inletting much easier.  I heated the end of the tang red hot and peened it to lengthen it.  After filing, it cleaned up nicely and had the proper dimensions. 




The barrel tang went is nice and tight although the pre-carved shaping of the tang and apron area made the job harder because the wood slopes away from the tang making the edges of the inlet much more fragile.  Moreover, the walnut is not particularly dense piece and chips easily.
 
With the breech fully inlet I noticed a problem with the stock. The inlet for the lock plate bolster is deeper than the side of the barrel.  I'll have to glue some wood in place to fill it.

I decided before investing much more time in this gun, that I would install the butt plate.  I was concerned that the router mess that is the butt plate machined inlet might be too bad to salvage.  I wanted to preserve as much LOP as I could so I just did not want to slice off the mangled portion.  The first photos show the pre-carved inlet.  I managed and it came out fine.  You can see in the side view of my inletting that I just barely squeaked the plate past the area ruined by the schlemiel with the router.  FYI, a stock for this parts set from TRS costs $295 and probably more for English walnut.  Anyway, it worked out and the LOP is 13 1/4" .  The original measurement is 13 1/16", which raises a bit of historical speculation.  Light infantry were selected for speed, agility, and intelligence, and often were small guys.  The big bruiser grenadiers had long land muskets with typical LOPs of 13 1/2"-13/3/4".





The stock must have been inlet and drilled for a metal ramrod.  All of the pattern 1760 carbines had 5/16" diameter wooden rods. The internal diameters of all the thimbles are too small.  Fortunately, they have enough excess metal to drill them out to the proper diameter.  But I still had to enlarge the ramrod groove and hole.  I did not want to fuss much with this so out came the Dremel and 5/16" round burr.  I do not recommend this to those unpracticed with the Dremel Destroyer or those who are faint of heart.  This requires "brass ones" and finesse.  The trick is to let the burr cut into the groove with no sideways pressure from your hand.  Just let the groove guide the burr along its length.  I widened the groove nicely and also the routed groove beyond the step and under the barrel channel, the groove that should be a hole. Next, ran a 5/16" ramrod drill up the groove and drilled the hole at the step.  A little round rasping and sanding and it all cleaned up nicely.  I am going to glue wood to cover the groove under the barrel and then paint the barrel channel with a varnish thin coat of AcraGlas.

The lock has to be built.  I cleaned up and installed the tumbler.  I turned the tumbler on my wood lathe with the bridle side spindle held by the chuck.  Fortunately, the tumbler post for the flint cock was concentric because it spun true with no wobble.  Therefore, I could clean easily clean up the bridle spindle, tumbler post, and faces of the tumbler with fine files and oiled stones. The witness holes on TRS lock plates are not necessarily accurate. You really have to check things out.  The mark for the tumbler hole in the plate was not centered on the tumbler hole that was filled with clay prior to casting.  I drilled out the hole at the mark with an very undersized drill. Using round files, I filed the hole concentric with the original hole but undersized. Then I drilled it out such that the tumbler could be fit if I hammered it home.  Instead, I coated the tumbler post with oil and aluminum oxide powder, and lapped it into the hole until it turned freely but with no slop.  Next, I need to add some length to the tail of the lock plate which is too short and not shaped properly.  I intend to lose the engraved "Farmer 1757" which I am not sure is correct.  No matter, I will engrave the right stuff.


dave
« Last Edit: December 17, 2022, 01:03:32 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Craig Wilcox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2472
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 04:28:09 AM »
Dave, it looks like you really have a bit of work to do!  Having seen some previous work you've done, I have no doubt it will be a success.
You certainly have done your homework, and I thank you for the brief treatise on the Pattern 1760 Carbine.  Should be a high mark in your flintlock building to get it done.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12591
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 04:55:20 AM »
Dave, your excitement over this build shows, and I understand it completely.  Currently I'm re-building a rifle that someone started and made many glaring mistakes.  Building it from scratch would have been easier, but there's some satisfaction that comes from overcoming problems.  Like the trigger (Cain single set) inlet is almost 1/8" off centre.  You have that in spades, with this build.  I'm enjoying your pictures and commentary.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline FlintFan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 06:10:41 AM »
Yikes!  Is that the correct tumbler for the lock?  Is it just me, or does the tumbler toe look like it is angled down too far? I would be concerned with the mainspring slipping off.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 06:54:28 AM by FlintFan »

Offline Gunnermike

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2019, 09:11:08 AM »
After seeing those photos of the butt area and how you finished up, all I could think of was Rudyard Kipling's last line in the poem - "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din".  That buttstock looked like it was chewed by blind beavers.  Great work Dave.
Mike

this is what I did last weekend-



(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6898
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2019, 02:55:33 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for looking guys.  I appreciate the interest.  Flintfan, I may have oriented the tumbler incorrectly in the photo and the flint cock just needs to be turned 90 degrees on the tumbler post.  However, I need to start installing the other parts to be sure.  I have to put it aside for a few days and start final shaping and carving an Isaac Haines kit I am building for a customer. I'll post that gun soon when I am into the carving.

dave   
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Mick C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 393
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2019, 09:52:45 PM »
Wow!  Please keep the photos coming.  Amazing project and you're doing a wonder job.  Thanks for sharing.
My profile picture is my beloved K9 best friend and soulmate, Buster Brown, who passed away in 2018.  I miss you buddy!

Offline rick/pa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 01:54:58 AM »
I always enjoy these posts about your projects Dave.  The detailed photos make it easy to see and understand what you're doing and how you do it. I am blown away by the skill and amount of knowledge displayed by all the members here. Thanks to all who share their knowledge.

Offline Kingsburyarms

  • Jon Rider
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 955
  • Jon Rider
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 02:22:58 AM »
You always amaze me - I'm sure there is not another individual on the web (or planet) with your incredible knowledge of these English guns....

Jon

Offline taco650

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 03:09:12 AM »
You always amaze me - I'm sure there is not another individual on the web (or planet) with your incredible knowledge of these English guns....

Jon

Ditto!

Stuart

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6898
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2019, 03:12:46 AM »
Thanks for looking folks and your kind comments.  Jon, I just remember what I read and observe.  I defer to Feltwad, Pukka, James, and likely a host of firearms scholars on the other side of the pond like DeWitt Bailey, Claude Blair, and Geoffrey Walker.  I do my homework, however.   I looked at the lock this evening and can see some issues to be solved.  I think the bridle is a little too small and the sear is badly cast with the tip of the trigger bar bent downward almost at a right angle. 
I'll be blunt, on this "kit" the barrel by Ed Rayl is beautiful but many other components show lack of quality control.

At Lexington, the minutemen faced the light companies of the British 4th and 10th regiments commanded at that moment by marine LT Jesse Adair and marine Major John Pitcairn.  Based on Bailey's research, the 4th was issued the light infantry carbine in 1771.  He does not show a record of it being issued to the 10th but most light companies had them early in the war.  I love learning about this stuff.

dave     

dave   
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:23:46 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Kingsburyarms

  • Jon Rider
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 955
  • Jon Rider
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2019, 11:00:31 PM »
Early on the morning of April 19, 1775, before the first shots were fired at Lexington, Lexington Captain John Parker sent out couriers to towns around the area to call their minutemen to arms. Benjamin Todd and Nathaniel Monroe went into Bedford as couriers. They knocked on the door of Nathaniel Page early that morning shouting, "Up, Mr. Page, the regulars are out!"

Interesting times and place - I grew up a few miles from there, and went to Page School, passed by his house many times and my best friend lived in the house where the Fitch tavern was located (in Bedford MA, where the militia met to regroup on their way to Concord) Nathaniel Page carried the Bedford flag to Concord, as well as a Brown Bess that was hanging in the Fitch Tavern house when I was a kid. Wish I had pictures or the musket now.......

So much history....

Jon

Offline Nhgrants

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 12:56:56 AM »
Did British Ordinance have standard templates that the would  check the finished guns against?,

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6898
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 01:06:27 AM »
Hi NHGrants,
Yes and an army of inspectors.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline SingleMalt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • One day I'll be considered a good builder.
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 04:22:41 AM »
That's an interesting project, Dave.  In spite of the limitations of the TRS kit, you're coming along nicely.
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."


Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6898
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2019, 04:03:52 PM »
Hi,
Finally got back to this gun.  This stock and some of the brass parts are nightmares.  I inlet the lock plate but still have to finish building the lock.  The tumbler bridle has so little extra metal, probably due to casting shrinkage, that the metal around the sear hole is paper thin.  I am making a new bridle from scratch because the cast one is unacceptable.


I inlet the rear ramrod pipe.  The casting was very good and has plenty of extra metal.  However, I suspect TRS uses the same design for a number of their "Bess" like kits and it is not actually historically correct. Worse, because the tang is partially machine inlet, I cannot make it thinner and smaller to be more accurate.  It also rises too much at the step producing a swell in the bottom profile of the stock at the pipe.  These carbines have a straight profile along the bottom with only swells on the sides.  Fortunately, the tang was plenty thick allowing me to file a lot away and straighten the profile.



I cleaned up and inlet all the forward thimbles.  The machine inlets for the thimbles are not located correctly.  Fortunately, I wiped them out entirely when I routed the ramrod channel and deepened it. Then I marked off the correct locations and inlet them. They have collared or ribbed ends, which I actually inlet using a tiny gouge.  The originals were inlet very precisely.



Next I trimmed off a lot of wood on the fore stock.  Note in the photos how there is staining from AcraGlas everywhere.  This is because I can be incredibly stupid.  I always paint the barrel channels with a varnish thin coat of Acra Glas to seal them and add a little strength to what will become a very thin walled barrel channel.  This time I put way too much AcraGlas in the channel.  I have no idea what I was thinking.  When I clamped the barrel in place, AcraGlas oozed out everywhere in great quantity.  I just had to sit back and laugh as the whole stock became immersed in epoxy spill over.  After a good laugh, I cleaned up the mess and oh what a mess it was. 
I decided to get the trigger plate and guard inlet next.  The machine inlets are pretty good but cast trigger guard is twisted and warped such that it doesn't fit into the inlet.  The trigger plate went in easily and deep enough to accommodate the guard on top but it is slightly off center relative to the guard.  It doesn't really show very much and there is nothing I can do about it. However, fitting the guard to the inlet was a pain in the butt.  I had to anneal it, then get rid of the twist. The rear of the guard curved slightly to one side and you cannot straighten it by judicious filing because it will be thinner than the machine inlet.  So I had to anneal it and then bend it sideways until straight. I finally got it to fit.  I drilled the holes for the pins and pinned it in place.  Note the guard has no reverse curl like other British carbines and muskets.  This was the unique style used on this fusil. When inletting these long guards, inlet and ping the front first, then work toward the rear, inletting the rear final last. As they are inset into the wood, they tend to move forward down the wrist.  If you trace and cut in the rear finial too soon, you may end up with a gap.





Next was the thumb plate, which is held in place by a bolt through the trigger guard behind the bow that goes through the wrist and threads into a boss on the back of the thumb plate.  Fortunately, the machine inlet was centered on the wrist and a little undersized.  However, the cast thumb plate was not an even oval and the little leaf sprout at the bottom was lopsided. When it was evened up and straightened out, it was too small for the inlet. Fortunately, it was thick because I took out my ball peen hammer and banged the snot out of it along the edges stretching the metal and making it bigger.  Then I just filed it to shape.



Then I drilled the hole through the trigger guard, stock  and into the plate, tapped the hole in the bolster using a bottoming tap.  The hole also goes through the rear of the trigger plate so the single bolt helps anchor the guard, trigger plate, and thumb plate. 

Well, that is where I am.  I think I will finish the lock next.




dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Justin Urbantas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1334
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2019, 05:48:14 PM »
Sounds like a pain in the back side. Half gun building, and half fixing TRS issues

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3389
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2019, 06:24:00 PM »
Dave,

As always, you are doing an excellent job!
Pattern arms always scare the life out of me, (because they are made to a pattern).
I Much prefer working on a one -off, because it is hard for anyone to tell if you screwed up! LOL.
I did a P '53 stock for someone years ago, but can't say I liked the work, as we All know how it should look.  :-)
My hat is off to you.   Grand work!!

Richard.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15321
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2019, 08:44:14 PM »
Well put, Richard - so true.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Clint

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2019, 05:54:57 AM »
The ramp angle on the tumbler of this lock may look a little scary, but the spring won't jump off. A nearly vertical ramp will give the lock a lot of power at the bottom and I would be more interested in seeing how much room the flint has at half cock and if the spring hook clears the ramp at full cock. Those three factors are what makes a tumbler pass or fail. All of the TRS locks I have put together have come close on all three and can be managed. One of the frustrating things that happen with hand assembled locks in the full cock slip or the 30 pound trigger pull. Rather than anneal the tumbler to adjust I use a triangle file with  the teeth ground almost smooth. The file is given a coat of valve grinding compound and the adjustments can be made pretty quickly and acurately. sorry to gas on, I love this stuff.

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2236
  • Oklahoma
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2019, 09:02:27 PM »
I'm a big fan of English martial arms, and the 1760 LIC is one of my favorites. Love watching you bring this thing to life.
Psalms 144

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6898
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2019, 04:11:32 PM »
Hi,
I took the gun south with me to my brother's place for the Xmas holiday.  He has a nice shop and bench, and I brought tools.  I was able to shave wood off the fore stock and get close to the final profile.  As you can see the fore stock is very thin on these carbines.


I also made an appropriate nose band.  The parts set comes with a cast brass nose cap that is incorrect for the light infantry carbine. They had sheet brass nose caps of which, some were closed on the end and others left open. I made one with an open end. These were typically installed without a lot of finesse but they were still inlet. I first shaped the muzzle area to receive the band, which included relieving the side walls of the barrel channel to accommodate the folded tabs of the band.  I made a paper template and fitted it to the stock then used it to cut out the brass. I used 0.04" brass sheet that I thinned on the ends for the folded tabs.  I annealed it and bent it around the stock and folded the tabs over with light taps of a hammer.  I pinched them tight with pliers. It came out nicely and looks correct.




The trend was that all British muskets and carbines that were originally designed for wooden ramrods were fitted with sheet brass nose caps or bands if at all.  That includes those later retrofitted with steel ramrods.  Muskets and carbines designed originally to use steel rods usually had cast nose caps.

After the nose band, I inlet the side plate, which was easy, although I wish the pre-inlet was smaller so I could move the plate around a little.


The precarved stock has some real rough spots and tear outs, which I hope will disappear when the gun is finished.
Finally, I roughed out the barrel apron.  These have undulating borders like the pattern 1730 musket but smaller.  The apron will be reduced in size before I am done.

Well that is it for now.

dave






"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3389
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2019, 05:20:26 PM »
Very neat work, Dave.

You never disappoint!  :-)

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15321
Re: Making a Pattern 1760 British Light Infantry Carbine
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2019, 09:25:55 PM »
That's a slim musket. Amazingly so. The top pictures of the original really show this as well.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V