Locks

[Mike from OK]

I'm looking at buying a rifle and I've narrowed my choices down to around 2...

One has a Chambers Large Siler. The other an L&R Bedford.

I like the rifle with the L&R Bedford, but as I understand it, L&R locks have a reputation for lower quality and reliability... Or at least they did at some point.

Have they improved? Or would I be happier with the rifle with the Large Siler?

Mike

[Dave B]

I think it depends on how much extra work you want to do to tune things up. Chambers locks have less fiddling with to tune up. I have used several L&R locks and once tuned worked very well. I like Jim's customer service. If Jim made a Bedford lock you would be set. It really comes down to who built the rifle and how much work was put into tuning the lock. You can get parts easily enough for the L&R unlike the Bedford lock by Rus Hamm. It sounds like you like the style of the Bedford rifle over the other. I say Go for it.

[Dale Halterman]

Flint or percussion?

Do they have set triggers?

Does the Siler have a domed hammer screw or does in have a flat top?

Dale H

[Mike from OK]

Flint or percussion?

Do they have set triggers?

Does the Siler have a domed hammer screw or does in have a flat top?

Dale H

Flint

Yes, both have set triggers.

Domed... Perhaps? Both rifles are new and unfired.

Mike

[Dale Halterman]

In my admittedly limited experience, I have had better luck with Chambers locks.

There are more things that can go wrong with a flint lock than a percussion lock. Frizzen hardness,  fit of frizzen to pan, balance of frizzen spring strength compared to main spring and so on. If the builder did a good job, either one should be fine.

A set trigger can cover up some lock deficiencies. For example, a sloppy sear to sear screw fit can cause creep when using a simple trigger. With a set trigger that is not a problem.

My understanding is that Jim uses domed hammer screw in the completed locks he sells, but provides flat topped screws with his kits. I have some problems with Siler locks assembled from kits by persons unknown.

Dale H

[rich pierce]

If you can handle the guns just see how they spark. Plenty of flintlocks spark just fine. My fastest feeling flintlock has an L&R Durs Egg from 1978. Folks on the line comment how fast it is. Or maybe it’s the ampco liner lol.

[Mike from OK]

Thank you for all the replies and help. I do have the option to handle both guns... I can't load and fire them but I am guessing I can check the lock for spark... So I do have the option of seeing what I'm spending my money on. Also the seller has assured me that if there are issues I have the avenue of working with L &  R to remedy any potential problems.

I REALLY like the Bedford... So I have to decide if it's worth whatever "risk" comes into play.

Nothing is guaranteed, but you try to make sure you aren't walking into a headache if you can.

Mike

[Dennis Glazener]

If you can handle the guns just see how they spark. Plenty of flintlocks spark just fine. My fastest feeling flintlock has an L&R Durs Egg from 1978. Folks on the line comment how fast it is. Or maybe it’s the ampco liner lol.

The L&R Durs Egg lock is as good commercial lock as I have every used the other L&R's not so much.
Dennis

[Roger B]

The L&R Bedford has the Egg internals. My old Egg was a very fast lock.
Roger B.

[scottmc]

I'm sitting here biting my lip but here goes. 

The early L&R's did have problems.  I'm a lefty so I used to use the late english lock which it seemed had weak frozen screws as I broke two in the time I had them.  Then I started using the baileys lock and they have been a dream.  Fast, reliable and great sparkers!  Then I had the need for a German style lock for a Beck I built so went with the chambers left hand siler.  $200 dollars later after having Brad Emig tune and harden everything, it is a great lock.  Like anything, there's always one bad one out that can leave a bad taste in your mouth and I just happened to get it.  I just think L&R gets a worse rap then they deserve.  I do believe they are getting better but I agree that tuning their locks helps their performance, too.

[Mike from OK]

Well, I "pulled the trigger" on the Bedford. I will have an inspection period to examine the gun and see if it meets my expectations.

My current gun is a Pedersoli. So even if I end up having to send the lock for tuning, I'm certain I took a step up.

I would likely have any lock tuned professionally. Just my nature I guess.

We'll see what happens.

Again, thank you all for the information, advice, and points to consider.

I'm very excited.

Mike

[Bob Roller]

If you can handle the guns just see how they spark. Plenty of flintlocks spark just fine. My fastest feeling flintlock has an L&R Durs Egg from 1978. Folks on the line comment how fast it is. Or maybe it’s the ampco liner lol.

The L&R Durs Egg lock is as good commercial lock as I have every used the other L&R's not so much.
Dennis

The Durs Egg locks have real potential and with a custom mechanism they are
even better. I delivered two of these to a man at the CLA Show in Lexington
along with set triggers and I have thought about making a few more this winter.
One of the locks I made up had an L&R double throated cock that makes the lock
look even better IMHO.

Bob Roller

[westbrook]

I'm sitting here biting my lip but here goes. 

The early L&R's did have problems.  I'm a lefty so I used to use the late english lock which it seemed had weak frozen screws as I broke two in the time I had them.  Then I started using the baileys lock and they have been a dream.  Fast, reliable and great sparkers!  Then I had the need for a German style lock for a Beck I built so went with the chambers left hand siler.  $200 dollars later after having Brad Emig tune and harden everything, it is a great lock.  Like anything, there's always one bad one out that can leave a bad taste in your mouth and I just happened to get it.  I just think L&R gets a worse rap then they deserve.  I do believe they are getting better but I agree that tuning their locks helps their performance, too.

$200 on top of purchasing the Siler lock?

[smokepole45cal]

I cant say enough good things about L&R.

The current lefty baby Durs Egg I've finished is just fine. Action is superb. Customer service is GREAT for both L&R and Chambers. Bill and Tim at L&R have been johnny-on-the-spot whenever I want something or ask advice. I even made a trip to their shop...pleasant, courteous, and professional!

[Dave Marsh]

I'm sitting here biting my lip but here goes. 

The early L&R's did have problems.  I'm a lefty so I used to use the late english lock which it seemed had weak frozen screws as I broke two in the time I had them.  Then I started using the baileys lock and they have been a dream.  Fast, reliable and great sparkers!  Then I had the need for a German style lock for a Beck I built so went with the chambers left hand siler.  $200 dollars later after having Brad Emig tune and harden everything, it is a great lock.  Like anything, there's always one bad one out that can leave a bad taste in your mouth and I just happened to get it.  I just think L&R gets a worse rap then they deserve.  I do believe they are getting better but I agree that tuning their locks helps their performance, too.

$200 on top of purchasing the Siler lock?

I would have called Jim or Barbie at Chambers and got it fixed and saved the $200.  Just my opinion..
I know Brad does great work as I had him fix two L&R’s for me.

Dave

[Hungry Horse]

Although I am in general a fan of L&R locks, I have to say their Bedford is not their best offering. I have seen more Bedfords in need of repair than any other of L&R’s offerings.

  Hungry Horse

[scottmc]

I'm sitting here biting my lip but here goes. 

The early L&R's did have problems.  I'm a lefty so I used to use the late english lock which it seemed had weak frozen screws as I broke two in the time I had them.  Then I started using the baileys lock and they have been a dream.  Fast, reliable and great sparkers!  Then I had the need for a German style lock for a Beck I built so went with the chambers left hand siler.  $200 dollars later after having Brad Emig tune and harden everything, it is a great lock.  Like anything, there's always one bad one out that can leave a bad taste in your mouth and I just happened to get it.  I just think L&R gets a worse rap then they deserve.  I do believe they are getting better but I agree that tuning their locks helps their performance, too.

$200 on top of purchasing the Siler lock?

Yes, $200 on top of the lock cost.  The lock was completely polished and didnt just want a new lock and was pretty sure that's what was going to happen.  So I made the decision to spend the extra money.  Plus I was accused of not knowing that u need to put oil between the foot of the frozen and the frizzen spring🙄.  And I'll leave it at that.

[Bob Roller]

As a lock maker I KNOW how much extra work that polishing requires and when I make
a flintlock I leave the external polishing to someone who wants to do it. I did polish them
in years past but then I figured out I wasn't really getting paid for all that extra S-E-A*
work.I have seen them polished to the point of looking like chrome plating and I get tired
just thinking about that much work.INTERALLY is where the real finish and detail work MUST be
done because the LOCK dwells BEHIND the lock plate the parts are fastened to.
Bob Roller
* Sweat-Effort-Aggravation

[Bob Roller]

I'm looking at buying a rifle and I've narrowed my choices down to around 2...

One has a Chambers Large Siler. The other an L&R Bedford.

I like the rifle with the L&R Bedford, but as I understand it, L&R locks have a reputation for lower quality and reliability... Or at least they did at some point.

Have they improved? Or would I be happier with the rifle with the Large Siler?

Mike

In the 1970's L&R had major problems with foundries that delivered substandard parts
and one in particular told L.C.Rice that
We do PRODUCTION,not quality control". They NEVER intended to offer an inferior lock
or anything else to the muzzle loading builders/shooters of that time frame but had a
bad time dumped on them by their suppliers that care for nothing except their own
sales.Today there have been improvements made in their line of locks and while they
still have a way to go,they are honest and I remember the time I over paid them for
some lock parts and Bill Cox caught that error 3 months later and sent me a refund for
about$14.00 and at one time they were the ONLY people that had my personal debit card
number for fast pay. I did use their external lock parts and have had NO problems reported
due to their parts.Both L&R and Chambers are owned by fine people and I am glad to have
them as friends.

Bob Roller

[Mike from OK]

The Bedford arrived today. Thus far I could not be more pleased.

Mike

[Daryl]

If you can handle the guns just see how they spark. Plenty of flintlocks spark just fine. My fastest feeling flintlock has an L&R Durs Egg from 1978. Folks on the line comment how fast it is. Or maybe it’s the ampco liner lol.

Interesting, the best locks I've seen, other than Chambers, was an L&R Dickert lock I put on my .45 rifle. It tied for the fastest locks I've seen.
The Dru's Egg on my .36 MTN rifle is quite fast as well, after Taylor re-hardened and tempered the frizzen. It REALLY loves Rich's river rocks.