Author Topic: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock  (Read 898 times)

Online Bob McBride

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • BHMACK
Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« on: October 03, 2019, 04:04:58 PM »
I can’t even begin to understand this lock. My first instinct is it’s a custom order for someone with a specific handicap but I can’t get my mind around how this thing was used.

See the rifle here:

http://hampshirecountylongrifles.blogspot.com/2015/






-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Offline WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 04:28:54 PM »
That is a pretty innovative lock.

Eliminates having to cut a mortice for the lock and a triggerplate. Any repairs needed could be performed without removing the lock.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Online Bob McBride

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • BHMACK
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 04:33:56 PM »
I’ve tried to position my trigger finger on one of my rifles in such a way as to trip that trigger and it doesn’t seem to work. Fascinating.
-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Offline Hlbly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 05:25:09 PM »
Looks like someone was trying to keep the stock as strong as possible in a weak area. John Painter did locks with outside mechanisms, but his triggers were in the usual place.

Offline WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 05:35:50 PM »
Perhaps it was made for a handicapped person.

Or a masochist. :D
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1016
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 05:46:12 PM »
 :o :o :o...... amazing,.... !!! ... I kinda like this,... also clicked onto the link that shows more of his work,... he certainly was not tied-down to a particular identifiable style,... no two guns are similar,.... !!!

Offline Bill Paton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 06:58:01 PM »
Food for thought on this unique rifle:

The mainspring is its own part. The trigger guard is not the mainspring.

Touch hole picks and feather holes are normally flintlock associated.

Image 33 in the link clearly shows stock cut-outs for a flint cock shoulder to arrest on the top of the lock plate and a divot farther back for full cock clearance for a long flintlock type cock throw.

The upper leg of the main spring looks like a frizzen spring combined with the main spring.

There appears to be a filled lock hole just above the upper leg of the main/frizzen spring. 

The other example of Glaze’s work in the link is converted from flintlock.

The Golden Age look of the rifle makes sense for the Flintlock or early percussion periods.

Did this rifle start out as a flintlock????


Also, this lock mirrors the primitive Hmong “monkey guns” whose locks were hand forged using a similar basic mechanism, with much less sophistication. They were flintlocks.

Bill Paton
Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com

Online Bob McBride

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • BHMACK
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 07:18:44 PM »
If it started out as a flintlock it didn’t make it past the trigger inletting, as it’s never had a normal trigger. I still think, though a fascinating lock, the secret to this lock is the trigger placement, not wrist strength or any other ‘non-problem’. I’ve tried different rifles I have with differing widths at the lock plate and still cannot find a way I could engage that trigger in a comfortable way. I think the lock was designed out of necessity for a particular application. At least, that’s my hunch as it is wildly impractical as a setup for a normal shooter in a normal stance.

Especially with that wide trigger guard making it even harder to reach the trigger in a normal way.

The lop also seems abnormally long.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 07:28:31 PM by Bob McBride »
-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Offline Bill Paton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 07:30:27 PM »
Bob,
The external mainspring/frizzen spring is part of the evidence for making me raise the FL question. The builder’s unknown reason(s) for making the external lock would apply if made in percussion or flint. So if it was originally made as a FL. no trigger inlet was needed.

Bill Paton
Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com

Online Bob McBride

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • BHMACK
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 07:35:25 PM »
I see. Custom made for a specific customer/application, then custom retrofitted for that customer later. I’m a little dense this morning. 
-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Online rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2019, 08:28:31 PM »
To me it was built as s flintlock. No other reason for the frizzen spring or the filled both hole that used to be for the frizzen bolt.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline vanu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2019, 09:09:20 PM »
As a follow-on to Rich's observations, it appears that the stock was cut for a flint cock.
Bruce

Offline WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2019, 10:42:36 PM »
It would be nice to see what is actually under the lock. Are there conventional clearance cuts for a bridle, mainspring, sear and sear spring, screw heads?

Perhaps Glaze utilized a finished flintlock lockplate, because it already had the tapped holes necessary to mount his unconventional components. He may have had some scrapped plates, for whatever reason, around his shop. I doubt that these old craftsmen ever threw anything away.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline retired fella

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 04:12:13 AM »
I agree with bob McBride.  Perhaps a customer with loss of fingers except trigger finger?  By the way my name is Ralph Glaze and George is probably related some way or tother.

Online Bob McBride

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • BHMACK
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 04:16:41 AM »
I agree with bob McBride.  Perhaps a customer with loss of fingers except trigger finger?  By the way my name is Ralph Glaze and George is probably related some way or tother.

That’s what I was thinking, missing grip fingers as it seems I see some wear on the rear of the trigger guard that could be from a thumb pressing to counter the trigger pull.
-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Online mountainman70

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2019, 04:21:59 AM »
Handicapped owner makes sense. To me,anyway,heres why.
Somewhere over a 45 year mechanic trade, my right wrist wont fit into a Hawken guard, or nearly any of the Golden Age guns. it just wont twist around enough to conform to the bow of the guard. If I shoulder gun on left hand, left wrist goes right in like it supposed to.
The way I have to hold gun to shoot right handed, my normal way, the position of my hand/finger would work with this arrangement.
Thanks for posting, a very interesting builder from my home state.
Best regards, Dave f 8) 8)

Offline homerifle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2019, 05:24:19 PM »
I would like to add a few observations about the Glaze rifle that is being discussed. I'm the current caretaker of this piece and I to feel that it was made for someone with some type of handicap. I believe that it started as flint because the top of the frizzen/mainspring shows ware from the frizzen when it was in flint form. The cock has notches cut for half and full cock and functions as a tumbler as well. The conversion from flint to percussion was easily performed by Glaze himself since he possessed the skills necessary to do so. This lock is the only one I've seen that is entirely made by him. He usually utilized Ketland for his lock choice. The earliest piece I've seen by his hand was dated 1803 and was found on an inlet silver plate atop the barrel along with his signature. IMHO I feel that his work is as good or better than Frederick Sheetz also of Hampshire county.

Offline WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2019, 05:32:22 PM »
Thanks for clearing this up for everyone. I did feel that it was made especially for someone with a handicap. The rifle is one of the more interesting pieces I've seen on on this forum. In addition, it is a beautiful rifle.

What about the lock mortice?


It would be nice to see what is actually under the lock. Are there conventional clearance cuts for a bridle, mainspring, sear and sear spring, screw heads?

Perhaps Glaze utilized a finished flintlock lockplate, because it already had the tapped holes necessary to mount his unconventional components. He may have had some scrapped plates, for whatever reason, around his shop. I doubt that these old craftsmen ever threw anything away.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline homerifle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2019, 05:38:45 PM »
Thanks for clearing this up for everyone. I did feel that it was made especially for someone with a handicap. The rifle is one of the more interesting pieces I've seen on on this forum. In addition, it is a beautiful rifle.

What about the lock mortice?


It would be nice to see what is actually under the lock. Are there conventional clearance cuts for a bridle, mainspring, sear and sear spring, screw heads?

The lock mortice is flat and relieved for the plate that is on the rifle.

Online Bob McBride

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • BHMACK
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2019, 06:04:35 PM »
Thanks for chiming in. It’s always nice to hear from someone who’s laid hands on a rifle. Is there any wear apparent on the outside rear of the guard from It being braced in any way? Thumb or otherwise? Thanks again. Beautiful and interesting rifle.
-Bob

My Highland ancestors were sentenced to ‘Transportation’ in lieu of death by King George after the Battle of Culloden. Serving time in Dixie since 1746.

Offline WESTbury

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Marble Mountain- Southern I Corps May 1969
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2019, 07:04:19 PM »
HOMERIFLE

--Thank-you for answering the question about the lock mortice, appreciate it!
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline homerifle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Glaze Rifle - Strange Inside-out Lock
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2019, 02:31:08 AM »
Bob, no obvious or apparent wear suggesting that it was braced in anyway.

WESTbury, Your welcome and I'm glad to answer any questions that you might have.