Damascus repair

[Metalshaper]

Quick question and then I'm off, back into the shadows...

is there anyone who repairs old Damascus shotgun barrels? I found a 12 gauge double set, that has a small area that is cracked on the left pipe,, about 4" back from the muzzle.

always wanted to build a double flint shotgun,, and would like to see if these are fixable or junk??

Respect Always
Metalshaper

[ottawa]

one way mite be to have the barrels sleeved ive heard that is done on good lookig barrels with questionable strength left in them. is the crack on the barrel ? if they are not chocked you mite just remove that section

[Metalshaper]

one way mite be to have the barrels sleeved ive heard that is done on good lookig barrels with questionable strength left in them. is the crack on the barrel ? if they are not chocked you mite just remove that section

Ottawa,

 Thanks, Sleeving "is" an option, but I was looking to see IF anyone did the work and how much $$$ it'd take?   It's a project, for down the road, just starting to look at what I'm up against!!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

[T*O*F]

Sleeving "is" an option, but I was looking to see IF anyone did the work and how much $$$ it'd take?

Dag,
Knowing your frugality, it's probably more than you'd want to spend, unless you and Marlow do it yourselves.  When I last checked, and it's been a few years ago, Briley would do it for $600 a tube.  The tubes had to be capable of surviving the reaming of any pitting and you lost at least 2 guage sizes in the process.

[Metalshaper]

Dag,
Knowing your frugality, it's probably more than you'd want to spend, unless you and Marlow do it yourselves.  When I last checked, and it's been a few years ago, Briley would do it for $600 a tube.  The tubes had to be capable of surviving the reaming of any pitting and you lost at least 2 guage sizes in the process.

 Fox

My Frugality      that, My friend, is a good one!!   I always thought you had to HAVE some $$$,,,  to be frugal with spending it??     I guess I'll have to be content with my Cheap assed -r-us, scratch builds..

Besides,  I'll probably learn more, by doing it myself!!

Thanks for the laugh!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Dagwood

[Mike Brooks]

You can solder a patch on if it's out near the muzzle. I've seen many a gun being shot at friendship with a patch soldered on the barrel.

[T*O*F]

The first thing to do with any old set of Damascus barrels is to clean them well.  Then plug the nipples, fill them with alcohol, and stand them in the corner in a glass jar.  See where the alcohol leaks out, especially at the breech end.  If the level drops and you see nothing, it is leaking into the rib cavity, but it will normally find a way out.  You isolate the leak by observing where the alcohol ceases to fall.

[Metalshaper]

The first thing to do with any old set of Damascus barrels is to clean them well.  Then plug the nipples, fill them with alcohol, and stand them in the corner in a glass jar. 

 Uhm,, Fox

 The two big 12 gauge size holes, at the breech end, keep letting all my alcohol out???    and the jar is over flowing,,, What Now        

 Guess I'll see if I can borrow a couple of  rubber stoppers from the lab,, and see how that works??  Will let you know how many leaks I find!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

[Birddog6]

IMHO, Junk them.  Why start out with a major problem. Start looking & you will find some decent ones, as they are still around.   

[volatpluvia]

Metalshaper,
Why not learn how to make new ones?  I know it would be a harsh learning curve, but you could be the only guy doing that in the 21rst century.  We do a lot of other stuff from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, why not Damascus twist?
volatpluvia

[Metalshaper]

Metalshaper,
Why not learn how to make new ones?  I know it would be a harsh learning curve, but you could be the only guy doing that in the 21rst century.  We do a lot of other stuff from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, why not Damascus twist?
volatpluvia

Volatpluvia,

 I need to work some more on my welding skills!  I'm not hammering as often as I once was, so the skills have deteriorated a bit   I also need to invest some time in reworking my forge. I need to have a bit of a deeper fire pot, in order to weld with a bit more consistency. Somewhere down the line, I am going to skelp weld a barrel,,if only a pistol!!  Then I'll forge the lock, build the gun and proudly say I made it all by hand!!

 I have been mulling over the twist barrel forging idea. Since I work alone, most of the time, I have to figure out how to handle the problem of manipulating  all the pieces and throwing the hammer shots by myself!! and like it was pointed out, being frugal ( read that as broke) I'd be doing it all without the benefit of owning a lil' Giant or any other kind of  power hammer!!  and besides, I reside in a truly suburban area,, so the neighbors already wonder what kinda backwards, Ya-bird lives down the street!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

[jmforge]

Metalshaper,
Why not learn how to make new ones?  I know it would be a harsh learning curve, but you could be the only guy doing that in the 21rst century.  We do a lot of other stuff from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, why not Damascus twist?
volatpluvia

Volatpluvia,

 I need to work some more on my welding skills!  I'm not hammering as often as I once was, so the skills have deteriorated a bit  I also need to invest some time in reworking my forge. I need to have a bit of a deeper fire pot, in order to weld with a bit more consistency. Somewhere down the line, I am going to skelp weld a barrel,,if only a pistol!!  Then I'll forge the lock, build the gun and proudly say I made it all by hand!!

 I have been mulling over the twist barrel forging idea. Since I work alone, most of the time, I have to figure out how to handle the problem of manipulating  all the pieces and throwing the hammer shots by myself!! and like it was pointed out, being frugal ( read that as broke) I'd be doing it all without the benefit of owning a lil' Giant or any other kind of  power hammer!!  and besides, I reside in a truly suburban area,, so the neighbors already wonder what kinda backwards, Ya-bird lives down the street!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

i wonder if you could do it with a press using "open sided" rounding dies?  The hydraulic press was my solution to living in a built up area.  Unfortunately, i never had the space or the spare 220 outlet in my garge, so I never got it set up until I rented shop space and by then, I was wishing that I had a power hammer...lol. I would think tha the big probelm would be handling the strip of steel hanging way out off the side and turning the thing while you hit it with a hnd hammer.  That seems like a two handed job.  Owen Bush, a bladesmith who lives in the suburbs of London, has been playing around with making some barrel samples, but they have been short pieces so far. The did look pretty cool. He posts on the British Blades forum if you want to ask him how he did it.
As an aside, if you aren't too cheap, Peter Dyson & Son, Ltd. in the UK has some old Belgian damascus barrel blanks for sale on their website.

[Metalshaper]

JM,

 Not Cheap!!  Frugal.. It's called Frugal      < See the notes in the above  replies  >

I'll take a look at Dyson and son's.. My brother-in-law is doing a lot of work in England these days,, so Maybe I can get him to pick one up for me??

Respect Always
Metalshaper

[jmforge]

One more question.  Are typical 28-30 inch cartridge or percussion barrels long enough for a traditional flintlock double?

[Metalshaper]

One more question.  Are typical 28-30 inch cartridge or percussion barrels long enough for a traditional flintlock double?

JM,

 According to Mr. Brockway's book, on recreating the double flint shotguns.. the British makers of the time typically made a gun with 28-30 " tubes.. and that is the book/basis of what I'm trying to follow. He does say, that in larger bores,, 32" +  may look a bit better..

 I looked on  the Dyson site..    guess I'm neither Frugal or Cheap..  as far as gun building goes... I'm Just BROKE!!!   I consider my hobby a selfish pleasure,, and will not take from my family,, to indulge it.  So I have to make do with what I can eek out from scratch building and buying what I can when I earn OT or such ..


Respect Always
Metalshaper

[jmforge]

One more question.  Are typical 28-30 inch cartridge or percussion barrels long enough for a traditional flintlock double?

JM,

 According to Mr. Brockway's book, on recreating the double flint shotguns.. the British makers of the time typically made a gun with 28-30 " tubes.. and that is the book/basis of what I'm trying to follow. He does say, that in larger bores,, 32" +  may look a bit better..

 I looked on  the Dyson site..    guess I'm neither Frugal or Cheap..  as far as gun building goes... I'm Just BROKE!!!   I consider my hobby a selfish pleasure,, and will not take from my family,, to indulge it.  So I have to make do with what I can eek out from scratch building and buying what I can when I earn OT or such ..


Respect Always
Metalshaper

Yeah, I was thinking that those things didn't seem all that pricey until i remembered to multiply the asking price by at least 1.5.  Still probably cheaper than making barrels from a modern damascus solid billet like the Damasteel 4140/4142 mixture.  Ed Rayle sold one of those for $1300 at some point and i think the prices for the barstock has gone up quite a bit recently.  I calculated that a bar of the 30mm twist pattern stock that you would need to make an octagon barrel for a rifle would cost around $1000!!!!  I am just starting to make damascus blade stock, but I would not think about trying to make anything to use for gun barrels. To much risk of voids and cold shuts on a piece that big unless you have a HUGE air hammer and an x-ray setup.  I am amazed at the skill of those barrel makers of old.  So are you looking to do something like a late Manton or Purdey flint double?  I've got the Purdey coffee table book and they have a color close ups of the lock and breach of an 1818 flint double gun and it is badazz!!!!!