Author Topic: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine  (Read 3695 times)

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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I had posted pictures before of the rough cast parts as received from The Rifle Shoppe, so I thought I would show everyone how it turned out, thanks to Brian Anderson!

This started as a research effort, then build with Brian Anderson of Bristol, VT, an excellent blacksmith and gunsmith as well as builder of early black powdah arms. I have dreamt about adding a shootable wheellock to the 'collection' for years now. And last Xmas, well there was nothing else I really, really needed ... so I suggested to my wife that she buy me the early Germanic wheellock 'casting' set from The Rifle Shoppe. Now get this ... this was my 3rd order from them, where all items have been not only IN stock, but I got all my orders in a week or so. I hear some wait for years for their TRS parts, but of course this one then sat under the Xmas tree for another 2 weeks more, lol.

I sort of started the lock kit, but quickly stopped, as when in talking to Leonard Day about wheellock mechanisms, he said that the most crucial part, besides the inherent design itself, was in the proper heat-treating of the related parts. I succumbed to the belief that this was way, waaaaay above my pay grade and at last year's Colonial Show in Portsmouth, NH, I had mentioned Mr. Day's comments to Brian Anderson. Brian said ... "If you send that wheellock kit ... send it to me, and I'll build it right for you!"

True to his word he did and we collaborated on the stock design to mimic or borrow from the John Alden 'Mayflower' carbine orginally made by Beretta in Italy (circa 1550), that now resides in the NRA museum. But I guess you would call this the “boar hunting larger cousin” to the original Alden ‘Mayflower’ gun, as that stock would be totally unshootable for a modern-sized person, as only having a really short 10-1/2“ length of pull.

For those who are not aware of the backstory, owner’s of the Alden family home found the original wheellock in the house in 1974, behind a wall in the house when it being remodeled. It came over on the Mayflower with John Alden and had been made by Beretta.

Due to the size of the TRS Germanic lockplate we started with, as well as where the original LOP was totally impractical, we upsized it to be a 12-1/2“ length of pull, with a 28-1/2“ barrel and that bought it up to a bore size of 58-caliber, which began as a swamped Jaeger barrel. The stock is cherry, which fits with early Italian arms.

Well, this completes one check off my muzzleloading ‘bucket list’. The craftsmanship and workmanship of the lock action by Brian is outstanding, the wheelock cycles like a fine jeweled watch! And now I have BP arms representative of each century from 1350 to ~1850, of hand gonne, matchlock, wheellock, snaphaunce, to the last in the flintlock lineage, an inline-breech loading Hall flintlock rifle.

And I will say, with no pun intended, that wheellocks are a ‘blast’ to shoot!

Input from Brian, via SmallPatch:
The TRS parts were marginal as best. Brian had to really make the extra effort to make the lock correct and work, but Brian is a superb metal worker and he constructed a very nice wheellock. I have the same parts set, which is originally from a German musket, but it has so much extra size to it, however one can trim it into a number of smaller styles.













All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 07:20:43 PM »
That's interesting.  I like it!  The real question is, how's it shoot?
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Offline axelp

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 07:37:33 PM »
WOW. looks really nice.
Galations 2:20

Offline Marcruger

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 07:49:02 PM »
You don’t see that every day. Cool beans. I really like it. Awaiting a range report. God bless, Marc

Offline KC

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 07:54:55 PM »
I like that a lot, definitely not your everyday muzzleloader. It's good to hear nice things about the Rifle Shoppe once in awhile. Like you said, if it's in stock, it ships quick.
K.C. Clem
Bradenton, FL

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 08:45:52 PM »
Thanks all for the comments, but less this being a ‘bucket list’ acquisition for me, all credit is due to Brian. FWIW he’s making his own wheellock lock assemblies for himself now and really can’t recommend the TRS kit, or at least this ‘early Germanic’ kit.

For shooting - @!*%, it is QUITE FUN! Albeit some of the allure is the ignition system of course. The main spring is huge, but winds easily thanks to Brian’s skill, as he makes his own springs. It also shoulders well, even given the ‘shorter’ length of pull than I am used to, but it points and holds great! I have’t done any load development yet and I bet they shot them bareball or with tow or wadding, but patched I put 3 into a tight group offhand at 25-yards, using a 65-grn 2Fg charge, with 3Fg in the pan. One does NOT PRIME wheellocks with fine (4Fg) powdah or you’ll crud up the wheel to a fair-thee-well, or worse, like if fine powdah dropped behind the wheel and exploded.

The lock mechanism, especially the wheel and sliding pan cover operate flawlessly and smoothly. The wheel is just affixed as a tumbler is, but rotates like it is on bearings, thanks to Brian’s skill in mating and hardening the related pieces precisely. This lock model has the cam built onto the tumbler where you close the pan ‘before’ shooting, set the cock holding pyrite down onto the pan cover and once the trigger is pulled, the wheel begins to spin and that cam (on the axle/tumbler) pushes the cover out from under the cock, so the cock drops (with some degree of force?) onto the spinning wheel.

So now I have all shootable ignition types from a 1350s Tannenberg hand gonne, to hackenbusch, to matchlocks w/ tiller or trigger - now the wheellock - and onto snaphaunce, and various generations of flintlocks, up to the last in the evolution, an 1839 Hall breech-loading flintlock rifle.
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 10:00:07 PM »
A fine job by the both of you!  It's great to collaborate on a nifty project, fer shure!

It is a gorgeous stock, nice selection of wood for  the Wheellock.  Is it Black walnut, or the European variety?  Great color!
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 10:43:06 PM »
It is a gorgeous stock, nice selection of wood for  the Wheellock.  Is it Black walnut, or the European variety?  Great color!
The stock wood is cherry.
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 12:36:33 AM »
"Input from Brian, via SmallPatch:
The TRS parts were marginal as best. Brian had to really make the extra effort to make the lock correct and work, but Brian is a superb metal worker and he constructed a very nice wheellock. I have the same parts set, which is originally from a German musket, but it has so much extra size to it, however one can trim it into a number of smaller styles."

Hi,
That was a comment from me not Dane.  I handled the gun in an unfinished state at one of our Bailey Hazen wood walks.  Brian is a good friend, superb blacksmith, and gun builder.  He also really understands the full range of old technologies used to ignite gun powder before the percussion era. 

dave       
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Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2019, 05:34:56 PM »
Very cool

Offline smallpatch

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2019, 06:36:27 PM »
Dave,
I can see the confusion, smallpatch, smart dog!
Now, if some of your skills could just fall off on me,.......
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Daryl

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2019, 06:58:28 PM »
Yes - very interesting, indeed. :)
Daryl

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Offline vtmtnman

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2019, 09:45:39 PM »
That's a great piece.Nice to see other types of arms.I love flinters but I wish folks would post more earlier weapons.I built a Matchlock(just the lock) a while back and want to build it into a complete gun in the near future.A wheelock is definitely on my list!

Offline helwood

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2019, 01:49:41 AM »
This is a little project I'm  currently working.  The lock is from TRS that I altered.  It's been fun and still more to do.






Offline Gunnermike

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2019, 04:19:28 AM »
Beautiful work Helwood for just "a little project"!!  You should post more of your wheellock work it is stunning.   Mike

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2019, 05:51:52 PM »
FWIW I attended a big BP event on Sunday with > 50 shooters in attendance, with many more witnesses and the Mayflower-inspired wheellock by Brian Anderson was indeed a hit! No ‘pun’ intended ...

Most shot it and many (observers) just handled the arm, or wound the action on an unloaded arm and observed the mechanism of the dog dropping into the spinning wheel as the pan cover automatically opened due to the cam on the tumbler. I also had a neat little write-up showing Leonardo Da Vinci’s drawings from 1495 on hand.

I recall that all but 1 shooter hit the 6” gong out at 30-yards, so she will surely shoot!

We also had 3 staff members from the Springfield Armory in attendance and they greatly enjoyed handing and firing both flintlocks (1816 and later) and the various Civil War era BP cartridge guns (all originals by the way) made and issued from their armory. They all commented that “ ... at work we only get to look at them”.

Two out of the 3 were not shooters themselves and they walked away with a positive experience of the shooting sports, which is a WIN!
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2019, 02:21:27 AM »
Hank,

You do Very  neat work!

Offline helwood

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Re: John Alden ‘Mayflower’ inspired boar hunting wheellock carbine
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2019, 06:18:00 AM »
Greetings,
Thanks for your thoughts Gunnermike and Pukka Bundock.  The Wheellock is a little different than the French flintlock because of the sear release.  The Wheellock has a Horizontal release and the French lock has a Vertical release so you have to alter commercial triggers.  The Buttplate started life out as an Edward Marshall from Jim Chambers.  I took a little artistic licences and design from Master French Gunsmiths' Designs, Plate #74 by Claude Simonin.  I also used his design as a starting point for the side plate.  The Thumbplate was from my inspiration rifle from George Shumway's  article back in , I think '92.
      Later,Hank