Author Topic: Antique muzzleloader identification (Read 7700 times)

UplandFarm · « **on:** October 24, 2019, 07:21:15 PM »

Hello Forum,

I have recently inherited an antique US flintlock rifle. I know very little about them. Would you mind helping me identify it? Thank you so much!!

Best,

Wolf

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2019, 07:39:07 PM »

Appears to be Dutch, possibly pre 1760. Need bigger pixcs and a pic of the trigger guard and the top of the buttplate. Do not do anything to it. Do not clean it up or polish it. Leave it completely alone.

UplandFarm · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2019, 07:49:23 PM »

Thank you, Mike, will post those pictures. really appreciate the help.
And promise, will not polish!

Wolf

WESTbury · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2019, 08:56:50 PM »

Very similar to Germanic Infantry Musket shown on page 114 of George Neumann's book.

As Mike pointed out some pictures of the triggerguard, top of the buttplate return and the end of the buttplate would be great.

Also, a photo of the breech plug tang showing the stock molding around the tang.

Page 114 George Neumann's book Battle Weapons of the American Revolution

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2019, 10:04:19 PM »

Quote from: WESTbury on October 24, 2019, 08:56:50 PM

Very similar to Germanic Infantry Musket shown on page 114 of George Neumann's book.

As Mike pointed out some pictures of the triggerguard, top of the buttplate return and the end of the buttplate would be great.

Also, a photo of the breech plug tang showing the stock molding around the tang.

Page 114 George Neumann's book Battle Weapons of the American Revolution

Looks like you nailed it. If you could hook it up with documentation of Rev war use it might bring $400,000....

WESTbury · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2019, 10:13:20 PM »

Mike---I think that one preposterous story per month is all I can stand.

The musket that UPLAND has looks like a great "untouched" piece. It's the type of find that does not come around too often and I think we all dream of.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2019, 12:43:27 AM »

Quote from: WESTbury on October 24, 2019, 10:13:20 PM

Mike---I think that one preposterous story per month is all I can stand.

The musket that UPLAND has looks like a great "untouched" piece. It's the type of find that does not come around too often and I think we all dream of.

Yep, this one is a dandy. Don't know what these go for in this condition these days? 5K-7K? Undoubtedly served in the Rev War...might not have fired the first or last shot though....

WESTbury · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2019, 01:28:41 AM »

Upland farm--Quite frankly, I would rather have your Germanic Musket than that Dutch Musket. The odds are, as Mike pointed out, very likely

that it was here during the Rev War in contrast to the alleged Dutch Bunker Hill musket, which was very probably not here in the Rev War period.

Thanks for sharing the musket with the Forum.

UplandFarm · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2019, 02:50:47 PM »

Thank you all for your knowledgeable insight! You had me there for a while with that $400k figure. The musket was bought 55 years ago in a small Vermont antique store. No documentation. $5-7k might even be reaching comparing this to some auction prices.

Will post some more detailed pictures.

Thanks

Wolf

WadePatton · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2019, 02:37:43 AM »

Patina is quite important to collectors.

As Mike says, don't clean it up, it would devalue the piece dramatically. Thanks for sharing.

UplandFarm · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2019, 03:28:49 PM »

Here are some additional pictures. I do not know how take a photo of a Breech plug and I do not know what the fang is. Thank you looking!

Wolf

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2019, 04:35:02 PM »

Wolf,

Thank you so much for sharing this treasure with us. That trigger is beautiful! The little curl is just right.

The breechplug tang is at the rear of the barrel and extends a bit down the top of the wrist of the stock. On this era gun it will likely have one screw in it to hold the rear of the barrel to the stock. On your gun the screw appears to thread into the trigger plate. There may be decorative carving around and to the rear of the tang.

Thanks again,

-Ron

WESTbury · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2019, 05:33:20 PM »

Wolf---You have one of the most interesting muskets I've seen lately. The variety of components of the Dutch and Germanic muskets of this era sometimes seems almost endless. Of course these muskets were made to order for whatever person, group, or country purchased them.

Thanks for sharing and can't wait to see the photo of the barrel tang area.

Pages 149 thru 154 of Jim Mullins book Of Sorts For Provincials shows an iron mounted Dutch musket very similar in many respects to your musket.

mesabi · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:03:11 PM »

Could the guys that have more experience with these than me (which is most of you) tell me if the numbers on the breech end of the barrel are original to the piece or a later addition?

fahnenschmied · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2019, 11:19:25 PM »

The markings are probably old, but I cannot enlarge the photo large enough to tell.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2019, 12:52:20 AM »

Probably rack numbers from it's time in Europe. Probably has nothing to do with it's time in North America.

WESTbury · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2019, 03:20:20 PM »

Wolf---Ditto on what Mike says about Rack Numbers. Many of the published Dutch and Germanic muskets have rack numbers stamped in the same area of barrel at the breech. Usually the fonts are typical of those used in that particular time period. Other muskets are marked on the furniture.

In the US, early flintlock muskets had a bayonet matching stamp on top of the bayonet lug. The bayonets were fitted to each musket individually because of the loose manufacturing tolerances. From 1819 thru 1832 the U.S Springfield Armory, and 1819 thru 1843 at the U.S. Harpers Ferry Armory, an alpha-numeric serial number was stamped on top of the barrel in front of the breech plug tang. This serial number was also stamped on the matching bayonet. Photo attached of an 1819 dated Type I Springfield Model 1816 with serial number "G k 32". See pages 68-100 of Springfield Armory Infantry Muskets 1794-1844, by Kent Johns, posted in Recent Books section of this Forum.

UplandFarm · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2019, 03:49:23 PM »

Thank you all. Very, very interesting. I have ordered the book.

Attached are better resolutions of pictures I have sent through earlier. You can more clearly identify the barrel number and what appears to be the initials of the owner.
Still owe you pic of the breech plug tang.
The last photo shows the musket together with an 1810 Jenks from Rhode Island.

Wolf

UplandFarm · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2019, 04:08:13 PM »

One more

upload

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2019, 06:00:23 PM »

I must say that is a VERY nice example. Take good care of it.

WESTbury · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2019, 07:48:17 PM »

Wolf--An iron mounted Dutch Musket Lot#1013 went for a hammer price of $8500 at Morphy's this morning.

UplandFarm · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2019, 08:01:07 PM »

Super interesting. Thank you for the info!

UplandFarm · « **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2019, 07:16:23 PM »

Hi Forum,

here are finally the pictures of the breach plug and tang.

WESTbury · « **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2019, 09:25:10 PM »

Beautiful Upland! Exactly matches the musket shown in George" book. You are fortunate, indeed to have s great piece like that.

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Author Topic: Antique muzzleloader identification (Read 7700 times)

UplandFarm

UplandFarm

WESTbury

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WESTbury

UplandFarm

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WESTbury

UplandFarm

UplandFarm

WESTbury

UplandFarm

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WESTbury