TN Rifle Pattern

[cglynn]

Hi all.  I've been a long time lurker, and am absolutely amazed at the level of talent and creativity to be found on this board.  I started with a kit TN gun in 2005.  Finished it in 2006 when I knew nothing about traditional long guns.  It wasn't until after I finished the build that I started doing research into what a real rifle should be.  So fast forward to now, when life is allowing me to get back into building, and I am just not happy with how the first gun turned out.  There were architectural and inletting issues that I can no longer live with, so I am thinking about putting my old kit components into a new stock, which I would like to build from a channeled and drilled blank.

I am looking to build another TN style percussion gun, and was wondering if anyone had any advice for good a pattern or plan set that I could use for reference.  I saw that Track sells a plan, but figured I would ask around and see if the membership here feels there are plans or patterns that more closely represent the Tennessee style.

For what its worth, I have the lock (small Siler percussion), barrel (13/16 straight .45 cal Green Mountain), triggers, trigger guard, rr thimbles, and muzzlecap from the donor rifle.  Acquiring a buttplate is not a problem, if I use one...I am contemplating putting together a schimmel, but working really really hard to absolutely nail the architecture, inletting, and finish.  Haven't decided yet for sure.

Thanks much for any and all insights and advice.

Chris G

[Stoner creek]

If you want to do it right you're going to either highly modify that lock or buy a round tail,  what's called a mountain rifle style lock. Look at lots of books.  Research first.  A gremanic style lock is something that you not likely to see on an original.

[Greg Pennell]

Hi Chris, and welcome to the board!  I think we've all been where you are now (I know I'd like some do-overs).  Stoner gives some great advice...research before you jump in on a re-build or new build.  Saying you want to build a Tennessee rifle is like saying you want to build a Pennsylvania rifle...both areas are very broad, and the regional differences between makers and "schools" can make or break the "believability" of the rifle.  There's a lot of difference between an upper-east Tennessee, a middle Tennessee, or a Cumberland Plateau Tennessee.  Do you want a Bean, a Whitson, a Lawing, or a Bull?

I'd suggest a good starting place for your research would be "Kentucky Rifles of the Great Smokey Mountains", by Randall Pierce.  It's wonderfully photographed, in color, and shows a good selection of rifles from different areas around Tennessee and North Carolina.  If something there catches your fancy, then you have a direction for more study.

Good Luck!

Greg

[Tim Crosby]

  Welcome to the ALR, without a doubt you will find what you are looking for here. The "Library" here may give you some ideas. If you haven't found it yet here is a link.

   http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=329.0

  Tim C.

[rsells]

Chris,
I agree with Greg.  Get the CD from Randall and see how these original rifles were built.  I use my computer in conjunction with a projector and shoot the rifle on the wall to get the profile I am going to build.  The CD gives some measurements of the original that you can use to get the correct profile size.  Just move the projector backward or forward to make the picture on the wall reflect what is given in the reference material.  Just take a piece of poster board and draw the profile.  I always mark the breech end of the barrel and trigger location for reference when transferring the pattern to the stock.  Also, get a copy of Jerry Noble's books (Notes on Southern Long Rifles).  He has 4 volumes with a bunch of info on Southern rifles.  Good luck with your build.
                                                                                           Roger Sells

[cglynn]

Thanks for the advice all.  I had no idea the TN schools were so numerous and varied, though it would be foolish to assume otherwise. 

Unfortunately, it is doubtful that I will be able to get a new lock for this project, so I am going to have to make do with what I have.  I will measure the lock plate and see if I can get away with reshaping to a round tail, or if I will have to live with it as is and build a contemporary "TN inspired" rifle. 

Interestingly enough, and why 22 year me wishes he knew what 36 year old me now knows, is that the TN kit guns available do not use the proper lock.  The pre inlet stocks are all cut for the germanic style lock, as opposed to the mountain style lock.  Of course 22 year me was really, really bad at inletting, so starting from a blank would have most likely been a far greater disaster.

I will have to get my hands on some literature and start planning.

[WadePatton]

Yes, I too was totally conflobbergasted when I started understanding what  Tennessee rifle actually was, but that the kit sellers included Germanic locks in their kits almost without exception. 

They'll substitute of course.  I finally concluded that it was pure economics--that they were probably getting a better deal on Siler locks than any other lock.  And I got over it.

Because I went on without a kit or any pre-carved wood and have no designs on shopping for those again.

Welcome and good luck with it.  I have my own set of "rules" for calling a rifle a TN, and those rules are sometimes violated by period guns made here.  That's just a part of the diversity of makers that made 'em.   A contemporary gun that doesn't meet my rules for a TN, gets called a "Southern Mountain Rifle" --- in my mind at least, unless it's a copy of a particular rule-breaker's work.  "Always" and "Never" don't work much for TN's. 

And I don't think I've seen an original yet with a Germanic lock. But won't be surprised if someone doesn't make reference to one just because I said that. I haven't seen 'em all. yet. 

[cglynn]

Wade, thank you for the insight.

Would you mind sharing your “rules” for a TN gun?

I have some ideas as to what one “should” be, but am extremely interested in the thoughts of those with far more experience.

Thanks

[WadePatton]

Wade, thank you for the insight.

Would you mind sharing your “rules” for a TN gun?

I have some ideas as to what one “should” be, but am extremely interested in the thoughts of those with far more experience.

Thanks

I'm still a bit green on many things, but here's what I look for in a TN rifle after a few years of study- a checklist of sorts: English lock, swamped bbl, extended tang, double set triggers, crescent (and narrow) buttplate, iron/steel mounts, grease hole or simple patchbox (long and skinny typically), pewter nosecap.  Also looking for at least 3 1/2 feet of bbl, skinny wood (cross-sections vary), and generally less than 50 cal.  A good bit of drop, and a straight comb and toe are part of the "right" architecture to my eye. Minimal engraving (aside from the lock) and very little carving or inlays is TN to me, but there are lots of exceptions and the Cumberland school has some engraving and inlays--and I've spent very little time studying that one so disregard anything I say about it.

I looked at lot of contemporary works when I was first learning (it was online-and easy to find, not off somewhere in a book or at a show), but I no longer seek those out for "study".  It was helpful, but also now I understand that we're best served by studying the originals as much as we can. Handling is the ultimate way to "interpret" a gun.

That's kinda how it shakes out for me today, I might think different next week. I have plenty yet to learn.

[cglynn]

Wade, thanks for the reply.  Based on that, it looks my build will be considered a SMR, using the TN architecture.  As much as I would love to faithfully recreate a Bean or a Bull rifle, I do want to work with what I've got on hand for this build.  The parts going into the new gun have some sentimental value to me, and I would really like to see what I can do with them. 

For the gun after this restock--because there is always a "next gun"-- A swamped .36 cal true TN gun sounds really good.

I'll see how I get along with this one.  I've also got a partially finished cherry stocked .45cal flintlock "parts box" build that needs to get off my bench.  Started that one almost 10 years ago.  Life changed, and I am just now able to get back into it.  Amazing how when one views his work from 10 year ago, he realizes how little he knew.  But the cherry gun looks way better than my kit SMR did.

-Chris

[Clark Badgett]

Any particular reason you are wanting to restock this rifle right now? Why not just keep shooting it as you get parts and build your next? That way you have one to enjoy as you rethink your first. Or as others here have done, leave it be as a reminder of where you started.

Reusing parts has it's own set of frustrations.

[cglynn]

Hi Clark.  The comb of the donor rifle was broken, and the piece inadvertently discarded.  I had thought about grafting another piece of maple onto/into the broken section, and then shaping the new wood as one would with a build from a blank.  I got so far as filing the butt section of the stock down flat to accept the new piece of wood.  Doing so made the rifle unable to be fired, at least comfortably (I did mention that 22-26 year me knew pretty much nothing about rifles....and 36 year old me is totally swallowing a ton of pride to talk of how I butchered this stock in the past). 

But then I got to thinking, I am going to have to laminate 2 pieces of 3/4" maple together, then glue the lamination to the butt stock, and shape the whole thing.  When I am done there would be a glue seam right along the top of the comb, and another on either side of the buttstock, just about level with the top of the cheek piece.   

I am not sure I want to put all that time into that type of repair/modification, only to be left with a final product that is just so-so.  I would rather essentially start from scratch, and build the whole thing right.

Now, if there were a good way to hide the glue seams, and still result in an attractive rifle, I would be open to that.

[Eric Krewson]

I built this one from Tracks TN rifle plans, I did Boglize the hardware for a little different look so I wouldn't have a deep crescent buttplate. i used the same barrel you have with a late Ketland lock.

[Tim Crosby]

Chris,
I agree with Greg.  Get the CD from Randall and see how these original rifles were built.                                                                                           

Roger Sells

 Is there a CD of Randall's book?

  Tim

[WadePatton]

Many originals were repaired.  Maybe do your best at matching up the wood and and getting a fine glue joint(s) and finishing dark enough to camouflage the joint.  It's all experience you might use later.

[cglynn]

Thanks Wade.  I just may have to give that repair a try.  As my plan was this for this stock to be stripped of parts anyway, I have nothing to lose and will get some practice shaping the top portion of the butt stock, skills which would definitely be used on future builds.

[B.Barker]

Ron Boran put out two sets of drawings for TN rifles most all from originals. You can order them from Log Cabin Shop and other places. The plans show cross sections of different areas of the stock. They can help a lot to understand how things should be shaped.

[Elnathan]

Chris,
I agree with Greg.  Get the CD from Randall and see how these original rifles were built.                                                                                           

Roger Sells

 Is there a CD of Randall's book?

  Tim

I think he is referring to the KRA CD of the display, which curiously hasn't quite the same set of guns that the display and Randall's book have. Evidently there was a substitution somewhere down the line. Very nice photographs, though, and the recommendation is seconded.

[Clark Badgett]

Ron Boran put out two sets of drawings for TN rifles most all from originals. You can order them from Log Cabin Shop and other places. The plans show cross sections of different areas of the stock. They can help a lot to understand how things should be shaped.

Would those be the 2 sets of drawings that they sell?

[cglynn]

Being as I live all of about 45 minutes away from Log Cabin, I really should head out that way and pick up some of their plan sets, and spend some time in their museum.

Things being what they are, and perhaps as a personal challenge, I've decided to try and repair/restore the rifle I built back in '05/'06.  I will have to get some pictures up so everybody can see what I am working with.  As of right now, the stock repair doesn't look too terrible from a shaping aspect.  We will have to see how it works out come finishing time.

The other major issues with that gun are some inletting issues.  I read in the gun building section that minor inletting issues can be fixed with sawdust and epoxy.  I am curious as to how that type of repair works out when finish is applied.  Does the wood dust in the epoxy take a stain (my initial is that it would not, but I have never tried to stain an epoxy/woodflour mix before).

Thanks all, advice is greatly and always appreciated. 

[B.Barker]

 Ron calls the sets Southern Originals I and II they are all TN rifles along with the Bogle rifle.

[WadePatton]

I'm no fan of sawdust/epoxy.

Prefer to glue in shims, or glue in another block of wood and re-inlet.  A fine glue line can be difficult to see and will likely blend better than any wad of sawdust filled epoxy.

Others think and do differently and each case, like a pot, "rests on it's own bottom".

[Clark Badgett]

I built this one from Tracks TN rifle plans, I did Boglize the hardware for a little different look so I wouldn't have a deep crescent buttplate. i used the same barrel you have with a late Ketland lock.

What type of buttplate is that? It seems that the feature I like least on most Southern style rifles is the deep crescent buttplate, some are better lookin than others though.

[WadePatton]

I built this one from Tracks TN rifle plans, I did Boglize the hardware for a little different look so I wouldn't have a deep crescent buttplate. i used the same barrel you have with a late Ketland lock.



...

What type of buttplate is that? It seems that the feature I like least on most Southern style rifles is the deep crescent buttplate, some are better lookin than others though.

The deep crescent is a thing of beauty to me.  It's held on the uppermost arm, not the shoulder.

But here's a "legitimate cheat" methinks to making a TN-rifle with less buttplate curvature--make it a poor boy/schimmel--that is without a buttplate and toe protection. Without the steel support of those pieces a buttstock must be much gentler in the curvature and maybe should be a little bit thicker as well.   Otherwise you'd likely have the toe knocked off in extremely short order.   

[Clark Badgett]

Now I have nothing against a nicely crescented buttplate, but there is a fine line between graceful and gaudy. There are some I've seen that it seems the original maker was trying to add a bayonet to the butt end of the rifle. and this is not limited to southern rifles by any means. I'm certainly not a fan of the poor boy/Schimmel style to any great extent. They have an unfinished look about them. In the end, we all have things that floats our boats and things that don't.