Aquafortis stain

[577SXS]

I'm building another rifle and wanted to ask about using Aquafortis for staining. I've used it in the past with good results but never neutralized the acid after applying it. I see most say to use Baking soda but that would put salt into the wood. Question is why wouldn't ammonia be better and has anyone used it before?

[tallbear]

I always use household ammonia to neutralize 

Mitch Yates

[Mike Brooks]

I have used both, I see no difference in the results.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I always use ammonia as it does the job very well and leaves no residue.

[Mauser06]

I used tannic acid and iron nitrate from Kibler on my last build.  When I used ammonia, it seemed to bring out some red.   


One thing I noticed was I lost my black.   Edges of my carving and such where I couldn't run back... normally that will stay black or very dark after oiling and with the ammonia, it did not.  But, there's other ways to obtain that effect.   

My first 2 stocks finished the same way without neutralizing seemed to continue to get darker for a while...so far, this one is holding the original color.

[Scota4570]

I never "neutralized"  the AF stain.  Is there historical documentation that it was done in the past? 

Mine is made from Ferric Nitrate crystals and water.  It is only slightly acidic.  Chemical reactions run their course based on the limiting reagent.  At that point is should not be very acidic, but I never tested it.  The bigger question is , is the stock wood acidic enough to cause a problem after a period of time?  The way to tell would be to put some water on a stained stock after reacting for say, a week.  IS the water now acidic enough to cause a problem?  I have never seen rust promoted on my metal parts from the wood stain.  I have never noticed the wood deteriorating from the AF stain.   Pouring ammonia over it is likely to change the color to some extent.  Are we sure there is a problem that needs solving?

If one makes the AF from nails an Nitric Acid, that is a different deal.     I have no experience since nitric acid is now a controlled substance. 

[Mike Brooks]

My stocks go black in a very short time when using the old Wakon Bay stuff with out neutralizing .

[Dphariss]

My stocks go black in a very short time when using the old Wakon Bay stuff with out neutralizing .

Its adulterated with hydrochloric.
Bad stuff.. Not sure neutralizing is any warrant against darkening.
I have a couple of guns that were not neutralized that are not getting any darker after 5 years or so. But the stain is nearly completely depleted intentionally and heating it well helps I am told. Not extra hot just making sure the heat is deep enough into the wood to effect any stain that has soaked in. I think using an acid neutralized finish may help as well.

Dan

[Stophel]

Neutralizing MAY not be necessary if its acid is completely depleted... but since I have no way of knowing for sure, I always neutralize.... well, not always, I have a couple of stocks I didn't neutralize, and they turned DARK within just a few years.  One is nearly black.

I have found that baking soda keeps it about the same color as before neutralizing.  I've only neutralized with ammonia once, and it also keeps the color the same.  Usually, I will neutralize with lye, since they didn't have baking soda, and probably didn't use ammonia 250 years ago.    Lye will make the color more reddish, and I find that finishing this with linseed oil makes the same dark reddish oiled finish that I see on certain original guns.  Many other old guns are pretty much bright orange, though, and they usually appear to have been finished with shellac/seedlac to fill the grain and some kind of varnish on top, and not finished with linseed oil.

[Scota4570]

If the AF is made from Ferric Nitrate crystals is the acid considered to be depleted?

I am using this, dissolved in water:
https://www.amazon.com/HiMedia-GRM755-500G-Ferric-Nitrate-Nonahydrate/dp/B00DYOBR1A/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=ferric+nitrate+crystals&qid=1573094114&sr=8-1
 
It is a lifetime supply for the price of one of those little bottles. 

[577SXS]

Thanks for the replies. I figured ammonia would be better than baking soda.

[Joe S]

If the AF is made from Ferric Nitrate crystals is the acid considered to be depleted?

Yes.  Ferric nitrate crystals are prepared by dissolving iron in a solution of nitric acid and water.  When the crystals form, any remaining unreacted nitric acid is excluded from the crystal structure.

[A.Merrill]

 Stophel, where do you buy the lye at?    Al

[Stophel]

I have a plastic jar of Red Devil lye that I got at the grocery store 20 years ago..  I have been told that you can't get it anymore, but I haven't looked.  No, it's not exactly the same as period lye (but has the same effect).  One could fairly easily make their own lye from wood ashes.  I just haven't felt like doing it.