Hans Jacob Honaker/Honegger

[R.J.Bruce]

If all goes well, I'll be able to commission my first historically correct longrifle in about a years time.

As anyone that has followed my questions, and posts, has noticed; I have been all over the map trying to figure out just what style of rifle I wish to own.

I like most styles of longrifles, and that's been the problem.

I have narrowed things down to a rifle with a stepped wrist.

Furthermore, I would like a fairly early rifle with a fairly large bore.

Of the early maker's, I have become interested in Hans Jacob Honaker as he seems to have been a pivotal gunsmith in our early history.

I am not interested in a bench copy of either of the two famous rifles attributed to him; rather a rifle that might have come out of his new shop in 1766 when he moved from Frederick County, Maryland to Frederick County, Virginia.

Would a Rice Barrel Co., Early Dutch Lancaster pattern barrel be appropriate for a Hans Jacob Honaker rifle, circa 1766?

Thanks for your answers,

R.J.Bruce

[rich pierce]

That big honking barrel is certainly possible on a mid 1760’s longrifle but not needed unless you want the architecture to be especially robust. A D weight barrel would be fine.  I’m not yet aware of any very early Honaker rifled. What will you base it on?

[Eric Kettenburg]

I believe Wallace has attributed the BBR and it's sister (the one that everyone forgets about) to this guy.

[P.Bigham]

 I like that barrel scaled down to a .54 caliber

[Mike Brooks]

I believe Wallace has attributed the BBR and it's sister (the one that everyone forgets about) to this guy.

I'm wondering how he figured that?

[rich pierce]

Checked the barrel dimensions reported for the brass-barreled rifle known by that name. 1 and 1/8” at the breech. Note that both this one and the similar gun are smoothbores, at least now. Of course a shop or maker could make a variety of guns.

[Stophel]

Is there somewhere where this 1760's Honaker rifle can be seen?  Is the gun signed, or is it another "attribution"?  I've been out of the loop, so it's totally new to me.

[rich pierce]

I don’t think anyone has a 1760s signed or unsigned Honaker rifle. I believe the proposition is that the BBR with a date of 1771 scratched on the lid underside was made by Jacob Honaker who likely made rifles in the 1760s and the proposed build is an exploration of what an even earlier gun like the BBR might look like. Sounds fun. Of course with no signature and a “reasoned” attribution I’m more comfortable thinking about what an earlier version of the BBR would look like. I’d choose a wider buttplate, a guard with acanthus finials, wooden box, etc.

[Elnathan]

I believe Wallace has attributed the BBR and it's sister (the one that everyone forgets about) to this guy.

I'm wondering how he figured that?

I took about 2-3 pages of notes on the Brass Barrel Rifle rifle when I had the opportunity to examine it and talk to Gusler about it. Unfortunately, they are in storage right now and unavailable.

Going from memory, there are a number of construction details that jibe with regionally specific details found in SW Virginia and as far as I know aren't present on PA rifles. The proportions of the triggerguard bow and grip-rail and the use of a wood screw to secure the tang instead of a bolt running through the wrist to the triggerplate  stand out in my memory.

I dunno about the other piece, but the BBR is a really interesting combination of very sophisticated German-style architecture combined with very naive folk-style carving done with a very small tool set - I think that there are marks from only two gouges, a very small one and a mid-sized one (the small one was used to create those circles in the carving, which will give you an idea of its size and sweep). Honaker came over as an indentured servant and did his time working in a cabinetmaker or carpenter shop, and then I believe immediately moved to SW Virginia and switched over to making guns. Wallace believes that Honaker probably was trained as a gunstocker in Europe, which would explain why he switched to making guns after five or so years as a carpenter. I think the BBR is supposed to be one of Honaker's early pieces, which explains the very German/Swiss architecture, the limited toolset, and the folksy carving reminiscent of the country furniture Honaker was probably making for the five years before that. The timing works out for the supposed 1771 date scratched on the BBR, too, IIRC.

The best thing would be to ask Gusler about it. He has written a couple articles on the BBR and RCA 145 which lay out a lot of his case for the SW Virginia origins of those pieces, so you might read those. The Honaker attribution is a more recent development, I think.

[Stophel]

Ah, I see, thank you.

I was wondering if there was another mystery gun out there that we're not privy to see or know anything about... until the book comes out...

[R.J.Bruce]

Back in 2013 there was another thread on Hans Jacob Honaker.

Between that thread in which Mitch Yates posted a quote from a Jim Whisker, and from an online Honaker gravesite locator I have retrieved the following information.

Born in Zurich, Switzerland...24 July 1718

Moved to Basel, Switzerland...1743-1747

Married Anna Bleyer, Pratteln, Switzerland...20 June 1747

Son, Hans Jr. born in early...1748

Leaves Europe for colonies on...8 May 1749

Wife and son die on voyage to America
Son dies before halfway point of voyage
  (not responsible for cost of passage)
Wife dies after halfway point of voyage
  (responsible for cost of passage?)

Arrives, Philadelphia on H.M.S.Crown...30 August 1749

Indentured servitude of 5 years
Additional servitude for wife of ××× years??
Marries Maria Goetz w/master's permission approx. 4 yrs. into term of indentured servitude
Released from indentured servitude on

Purchased land in Frederick Co., MD
 10 April 1758
 03 December 1761

Purchased land in Frederick Co., VA
 97 acres...2 August 1765

Dunmore Co. formed  from Frederick Co., VA...1772
Dunmore Co. renamed Shenandoah Co., VA...1778

War of Independence...1783
Contributed monies, and worked as wagonmaster

Sold 97 acres, Shenandoah Co., 76 pounds...25 March 1784

Purchased 146 acres, Wythe Co., VA, 300 pounds...26 July 1784

Died Wythe Co., VA...10 May 1796

[R.J.Bruce]

If Hans Jacob Honaker built the brass-barreled rifle, and it's counterpart, RCA #145, then he did so while living in Northern Virginia in his early fifties; not SW Virginia.

He did not sell his land in Shenandoah County, and purchase land in Wythe County until 1784 when he was 66 years old.

His architectural style was therefore well developed before he set foot in SW Virginia, and it seems to me that he taught that style to his children, who then taught it to their children.

This is why I am interested in Hans Jacob Honaker. A riflesmith who had an extremely complex, well executed design with simplistic carving that did not distract from the overall beauty of the rifle.

After speaking with my doctors, it appears that I will be able to shoot a larger caliber than I thought, so I am considering a bore size of no less than .60 caliber.

So, back to my original question. Reccomendations as to barrel profiles for a Hans Jacob Honaker derivative longrifle in say .62 caliber × 41"-47" long, circa 1766??

[sqrldog]

A D wght profile in the length you want will  work. For a beefier breech a Rice Early Dutch Lancaster profile trimmed from 1.250 in the breech to 1 3/16 in the breech is a nice barrel. The rifle Mike Brooks just made for me uses this profile in a .60 cal. It is a bigger rifle through the breech and comes in at about 9 lbs. A .62 would probably weigh a little less. Not sure what the rifle you want to emulate would have used.

[bama]

The Brass barreled rifle does not have a long barrel from what I remember, it may be as long as 42" but I seem to recollect that it is shorter than that. Regardless, I think an early rifle like what your are talking about should be at least 1 1/8" at the breech to give it the strength it needs through the wrist and give it good architecture. The brass barreled gun is a wide butted gun of good proportions but slender out through the forearm. I agree with Sqldog A "D" weight barrel of 40" or longer would make into a very nice early rifle, a pleasure to shoot and carry in 62 caliber.

[rich pierce]

From an article by Wallace Gusler the BBR has a 45” barrel but that is extended by Wallace to that length. It had previously been shortened. Again I think this may have been a smooth rifle and I am not sure whether a rifle rifle would have had the same length or not. It would depend on what barrels the gunsmith could get.

[heinz]

When I was working on my iron mounted interpretation of the BBR I spoke with Wallace Gussler and John Getz.  John Getz is familiar with the BBR and Wallace published the barrel profile dimensions.  John made me a 54 caliber barrel to the original profile dimensions in 54 caliber.

That barrel profile I do not believe will accommodate a 60 caliber.  I soldered the front thimble and barrel lugs on mine because it is really thin there.

I inked some measurements on the barrel while building.








The gun handles really well.  It has great balance and points well.  The stock is not nearly as clunky as it looks

[R.J.Bruce]

When I was working on my iron mounted interpretation of the BBR I spoke with Wallace Gussler and John Getz.  John Getz is familiar with the BBR and Wallace published the barrel profile dimensions.  John made me a 54 caliber barrel to the original profile dimensions in 54 caliber.

That barrel profile I do not believe will accommodate a 60 caliber.  I soldered the front thimble and barrel lugs on mine because it is really thin there.

I inked some measurements on the barrel while building.








The gun handles really well.  It has great balance and points well.  The stock is not nearly as clunky as it looks

Heinz,
           If you would not mind, would you please write out the length measurements vs the outside across the flats measurements so that I could compare your copy of the BBR barrel to the Rice Early Dutch Lancaster?

Jason told me that he will rifle the EDL pattern in .66 caliber with round bottom rifling. His .66 caliber has a bore diameter of 0.672", and a groove diameter of 0.704". With a waist measuring 0.850", this leaves a barrel wall thickness of 0.073".

As sqrldog mentioned above, I can reduce the breech dimension down to 1.1875", and the waist dimension down to 0.780" for the EDL barrel in .60 caliber.

Thanks,
              R.J.Bruce 

[rich pierce]

Just me,I’d want .875 minimum dimension for such a big bore.


Though it is fun to closely copy dimensions of an original, the previous and next guns out of that shop may have had quite different barrels. And a gun made 10 years earlier likely had a barrel Witt different dimensions.

[heinz]

R.J.  That is now my oldest grandson's rifle.  It is with him in Minnesota and I am here in South Carolina so I cannot put a tape measure on it.  I will look tonight to see if I have those dimensions anywhere.  If I do I will post.  The flare at the muzzle and breech are both pretty steep with a gentler taper throughout the long midsection.  The waist was about 6' back from the muzzle.  That is where the original blew.

h

[Mike Brooks]

So, if the BBG and it's sister are Honakers, where did all of the chip carving go on the later guns?

[rich pierce]

So, if the BBG and it's sister are Honakers, where did all of the chip carving go on the later guns?

You LOVE that chip carving, dontcha?

[Mike Brooks]

So, if the BBG and it's sister are Honakers, where did all of the chip carving go on the later guns?

You LOVE that chip carving, dontcha?

Yes, outstanding stuff!. Seems odd he would have completely abandoned it later in his career.

[R.J.Bruce]

Would it be possible for someone to point me in the right direction to an online source for images of the BBR,  and RCA #145? I am especially interested in images of the carving and mouldings. I am intrigued by Mike Brooks comment above regarding chip carving. What are you all referring to when you mention that?

I know that the standard response is for me to purchase certain books and DVD's, but I am on a tight fixed income. I am saving for the rifle, and the accessories to shoot it, and there is no money for anything else. I LOVE books, and would like nothing more than to own a comprehensive  library of longrifle related books.

Alas, such is not the case.

Thanks,
              R.J.Bruce

[Mike Brooks]

RCA vol II is the only place I know of to see these guns. Copyrights you know.

[rich pierce]

There is a muzzle blasts article by Wallace with some pictures in it. Let me look it up. NMLRA may have back issues.