Author Topic: A saved rifle build  (Read 5137 times)

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2019, 08:31:26 PM »
If that's not a Griffith breech it's a really good copy.

Bob Roller

Offline Prospector8083

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 09:07:34 PM »
How does a person achieve those sharp edges and super smooth surface especially around the cheekpiece? What is your method of blocking? I want to learn it! :) :)Absolutely beautiful!

Offline Mike Lyons

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1242
  • Afghanvet
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 10:01:27 PM »
The radius you were able to achieve throughout the entire rifle is beautiful.  The more I look at it the more i appreciate it. 

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2019, 07:56:38 PM »
Thanks again for your comments guys.  Yes, I think that this is a Griffith's breech plug, and has been filed down from 1" to match the 15/16" barrel.  The tang that came with the rifle was I think a home made affair but it was never going to work, so I replaced it.
Prospector, you have asked a valid question and I'm happy to explain my method of achieving that look.  The cheek piece in this case should have been moved back about an inch, in my opinion, but with this short lop, it functions well where it is.  A cheek piece of this style should appear to be applied to the surface of the buttstock.  In order to get that look, one must pay very close attention to the plain of the wood from the butt plate forward to the wrist.  It must appear to be a perfectly flat plain throughout the convex curve of the stock.  There was way more wood when I got it that would allow this concept, so little by little, I filed it away with a Nicholson 48 or it's equivalent ( I call it jaws, it cuts so quickly), frequently holding the stock up to an incandescent light bulb to check the flatness, and watching down from above the comb to be sure I didn't go too far.  Also, I laid a straight edge along the stock from the toe to the wrist to check the flatness of the stock.  When I 'was there', I finished the radius of the outline of the comb with as rat-tailed cabinet maker's rasp, and reduced the comb to it's final height.  Before I cut the highlight line around the comb, I sanded the wood to 220 grit and drew the arc in pencil as a rough outline I wanted.  Then I used a fine 6" single cut mill bastard file to cut the line and accentuate the cheek piece.  In truth, it didn't take very long, and the accent line really makes the cheek piece 'pop'.
Having sanded the wood to 220, I laid on a soaking of super saturated tannic acid and let it dry:  that's as much powdered acid as will dissolve in hot water with agitation, and still will not dissolve it all.  It turned the wood jet black when I laid on the ferric nitrate.  When the FN dried, I blushed the FN with a heat gun and I sanded the wood back until I could see the light bars of wood between the black bars of the curl, with 220 grit paper.  Around the accent line, I used  the same file to back the paper, and a triangular shaped hard rubber backer for the rest of the stock.  Then I repeated the staining, since it wasn't as bold as I thought I could achieve.  Doing this process twice was the whiskering process, and once finished, I sanded the wood again with 320 grit.  I wiped on another application of FN, let it dry, and blushed it again.  This time, no more whiskers rose, so I simply burnished the stock with 0000 steel wool.  The stock was finished with Circa 1850 Tung Oil Finish which I understand is made in Quebec.  I slathered the oil on the wood which is a very satisfying job as the curl just looks fantastic.  I let the wood 'take up' as much oil as it would, adding more as I saw dry spots, for about twenty minutes, then wiped it all off.  I did this soak twice, allowing 24 hours between soakings for the oil to cure.  After the second soak and dry, I applied oil on a folded two inch square of flannelette cotton, as evenly and thinly as I could...you don't want the oil to run.  Always letting the oil cure for minimum 24 hours, sometimes several days, I repeated this for five applications.  Then, with a maroon ScotchBrite pad, I cut away all the oil, right down to the wood.  The SB pad was pretty aggressive, and the oil came off like dust.  But I could see scratches from the pad, so again, I burnished the wood with 0000 steel wool.  Now I used the flannelette cotton again, this time applying about half as much oil.  As I added more oil each day, the finish went from flat to quite shiny, so when the forth application had thoroughly dried, I applied the final application, and rubbed it out with the palm of my hand.
Well, that's probably more than you asked for, but there it is.
A  little more about the rifle - as I said, the barrel is 15/16" x .32 cal x 36" (including the plug).  It weighs 8 pounds 14.5 oz.  Daryl and I shot it yesterday to get the sights 'into the black' for the owner, but having achieved that, we quit before shooting a group 'for score' because of the cold.  At -11 C our old hands can't take it anymore, and it isn't fun.  I have never shot a rifle with that small a bore before, and was quite surprised that my usual .020" patch with LVL and the .311" ball was too loose a combination.  Although the bore didn't 'foul out', it was far too easy to load and I think we'd have achieved better results with a heavier patch.  We sighted it in with 30 gr. FFFg GOEX. and #11 CCI caps.
Here's a pic of my bro' and the rifle...



D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline msellers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2019, 09:44:55 PM »
Taylor,
Thank you very much for such a thorough response to the question. It will be a great help to me and and am sure everyone else as well. Beautiful job saving that build, it will definitely be an heirloom for future generations.
Mike

Offline Prospector8083

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2019, 10:56:38 PM »
I am just blown away by the smoothness and sharp lines! I will keep in mind your technique. What size block and do you ALWAYS sand with the grain? It looks as though you never rounded the edges,is that true? One of the best finishes I have seen so far! Thank you for your extremely detailed explanation to this ignorant student!

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2019, 12:51:35 AM »
I suppose the almost flat butt plate helps with the recoil of this fine rifle. ;D ;D
Bob Roller

Offline Craig Wilcox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2019, 01:56:47 AM »
Taylor, your work continues to amaze me!  Really appreciate you sharing your techniques with us.

It is about -11 C outside right now, and snow is falling.  Had to take Sunny dog out, and brush off the 19 steps going down to ground level.  I can sympathize with your reluctance to shoot for record.  I may go hibernate till spring!
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • Tennessee
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2019, 05:22:44 AM »
Taylor,
Thank you very much for such a thorough response to the question. It will be a great help to me and and am sure everyone else as well. Beautiful job saving that build, it will definitely be an heirloom for future generations.
Mike

Taylor, my thoughts were these as well. Mike saved me some typing. Excellent as always.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15848
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2019, 09:17:42 PM »
I suppose the almost flat butt plate helps with the recoil of this fine rifle. ;D ;D
Bob Roller

Good 'catch' Bob - excessive recoil was not a problem. ;D
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Joe Stein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2019, 04:50:36 AM »
I get to be shooin' 'er tomorrow. (Sunday)
Daryl, I was going to say, stop gloating, you get to have all the fun, but -11 degrees? That's not fun to me.

Taylor, Thank you for sharing your method of getting the fine line around the cheek piece and finishing the wood.  That is a beautiful rifle. The stock color is wonderful, and the curvature; no slab-sidedness there.  I also like the hammer on the Bob Roller lock, it has a graceful swan curve that is not usually seen on percussion hammers.

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2019, 05:06:50 PM »
Joe Stein and others who may be interested. That hammer was designed by Bill Large in 1972.
He showed the master he made by hand and asked my opinion of it and told him it was a very
fine looking job.He had a mould made for it and I bought these from Bill for Years and the sad
day in September 1985 we buried him I was in his shop and having flash back memories and I saw that mould on a
shelf and was looking at it. His nephew,David was there and told me to take it home which I did.
There were a number of hammers in the shop and they were given to me as well and payment was refused.
I still have some of those and used one on a Rigby pattern lock for a friend. I promised him it would not
be repeated and it won't be.Les Barber who does assembly work for the Mould and Gun Shop in Ohio
now has the mould and I have bought these hammers from him later.
The high class percussion rifle shown with Daryl shooting it is a good example of the potential of this
hammer.It's on a $300 lock.

Bob Roller

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • Tennessee
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2019, 11:15:56 PM »
Joe Stein and others who may be interested. That hammer was designed by Bill Large in 1972.
He showed the master he made by hand and asked my opinion of it and told him it was a very
fine looking job.He had a mould made for it and I bought these from Bill for Years and the sad
day in September 1985 we buried him I was in his shop and having flash back memories and I saw that mould on a
shelf and was looking at it. His nephew,David was there and told me to take it home which I did.
There were a number of hammers in the shop and they were given to me as well and payment was refused.
I still have some of those and used one on a Rigby pattern lock for a friend. I promised him it would not
be repeated and it won't be.Les Barber who does assembly work for the Mould and Gun Shop in Ohio
now has the mould and I have bought these hammers from him later.
The high class percussion rifle shown with Daryl shooting it is a good example of the potential of this
hammer.It's on a $300 lock.

Bob Roller

I don't know a lot about percussion locks, but that one struck me as a fine looking one before it really registered with me who made it.  Thanks Bob, for some back-story on it and the hammer which sets it off. 

Form follows function, but that doesn't mean it can't be good-looking as well.

Hold to the Wind

tricorn hat

  • Guest
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2019, 06:15:07 AM »
Taylor, Thank you.  Just, Thank you , Thank you, Thank you!  I feel honored to be able to call you my friend.    Yrs Aye   Derekl

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2019, 08:38:36 PM »
Derek, thanks for jumping into the party!  You and I have had frank discussions about what was necessary to finish this rifle, and I wanted to be fair in my assessment when I started this thread.  The last thing I wanted was to diminish the work that you had accomplished.  In truth, I think that I have personally experienced all of the issues that you ran into, in my own work.  Your rifle had a lot going for it, and huge potential - the basics were all there:  excellent triggers, lock, barrel and a superlative piece of Western maple.
Daryl and I took it to the range, proved it, and sighted it so you'll be in the black at 50 meters...some fine tuning, according to how YOU see the sights, will likely be necessary.   Obviously, you can't remove anything from the globe front sight, but the rear sight is open to interpretation.
I'll send it off to you presently.  I wish you joy of it.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15848
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2019, 03:59:04 AM »
That rifle would make a super squirrel rifle, if we actually had edible squirrels, that is.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline msellers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 599
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2019, 04:00:09 AM »
That rifle would make a super squirrel rifle, if we actually had edible squirrels, that is.
All depends on how hungry you are Daryl. Most anything can be made edible if the hunger is strong enough.
Mike

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2019, 04:22:57 AM »
Tim :  sorry for not answering your question earlier.  I just re-read this thread, and see your question.
No< is the answer.  I do not have a favourite school/style of rifle/gun.  And I have never just inlet a barrel, lock, hardware and such, and come up with a rifle of my own design.  I suggest that that is possible, but so far, I have enjoyed working in the style of former makers, both antique and contemporary.  The whatever happens approach might be on the horizon though.  I have a plank with barrel inlet by Mark Wheland and hardware by Tornichio, so I'm going to put together a mountain rifle for myself and might just go with experience rather than documentation.  From what I have seen, I should be able to build a neat rifle without continuously referring to photos and dimensions, based on this forgiving style.  But I still have rifles to build for myself that are completely based on originals that I admire:  Wm. Antes swivel breech, Allison (W. Penn), JP Beck smooth .50 cal., to name a few.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15848
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2019, 09:26:23 PM »
& an A. Verner pistol to go with the rifle.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline thecapgunkid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1112
  • Matthew 25:40
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2019, 08:14:32 PM »
You could call this one elegant....and I am not a big fan of this type of gun but you really did some job.

Offline dogcreek

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2019, 01:49:07 AM »
That's excellent craftsmanship. No doubt your friend was delighted with the finished results.

Offline SteveK

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2019, 08:31:41 PM »
I have a question Taylor. When you did the finish on the stock, did you remove any or all of the metal parts from the stock? Are there any adverse effects to the brass by any of the products used? Thanks for your help.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: A saved rifle build
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2019, 08:56:47 PM »
Steve:  that's a valid question.
I leave the butt plate, lock bolt escutcheon, and barrel key escutcheons on the stock during the staining process.  The entry pipe, trigger plate and guard are removed.  After the application of the tannic acid, and then the ferric nitrate, I sand the stock down to get the whiskers and the colour distribution that I want, and the brass parts protect the inlets.  When I'm satisfied that the stain is as good as it is going to get, I remove the butt plate but not the inlays.
The first two images are what happens when ferric nitrate meets tannic acid...stock goes black.  Here, I have sanded the wood removing some of that black, but leaving it in the curl.  In the next two images, I have applied ferric nitrate again, and blushed it, then sanded everything again, and applied the first application (soak) of tung oil.  I remove the buttplate for oiling so I can soak the end grain of the stock under the butt plate.  The chemicals have no adverse effect on the metal.










« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:02:14 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.