NO WIPE -Throwback to 2010 thread on shooting without wiping-AND MORE!

[WadePatton]

Because it appears that we'll get no volunteers or agreement upon what/which/how to compose a comprehensive STICKY/Must READ before posting any questions thread to help reduce repetitive Q&A's (as evidenced in this thread https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=56880.0;topicseen), here's one I ran across that has important information in it, that Daryl Sapergia has tirelessly repeated and retold here since I got started.

The thread starts out with discussion of ball deformation and the factors that affect ball flight and how we should orient the sprue or any any imperfections, and then it moves into the "No Wipe" practice of the BC fellas.  I learned it right off. Others yet command that you gotta wipe every X amount of shots.  Still others, in certain situations, must wipe-like in matches were immediate reloading isn't permitted and fouling wouldn't wipe down with the load properly (hardens in low humidity).

Of course the videos/pics are all gone, but there's a lot to learn in the thread for anyone new to BP shooting, like no-flip loading, and how wet a patch should be, and some of the better patch lubes (for guys who want to be able to shoot 75 competitive targets in one day).  Loading combinations fitment-and a damp patch, KEY to the whole no-wipe practice, are discussed as well as crown treatment for getting a snug combo started best.

If I were teaching a person best practices for BP shooting, I'd certainly have them read this particular thread.  Thanks to all the folks who posted in the thread back then and RIP to those who are no longer with us. 

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8604.0

12,716 is the view count on this morning. Let's read it some more.

[Frank]

Excellent. The old adage applies. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink it. There will be people who will continue to ask questions that are answered in your post.

[Herb]

You can lead a horse to drink but you can't make him water.

[WadePatton]

A thirsty horse smells water and will drink when he gets there.

[Mike Brooks]

OH NO, NOT THE NO WIPE CONTROVERSY! LETS FOLLOW IT UP WITH THE BLOW/NO BLOW CONTROVERSY, THAT'S ALWAYS FUN.

[WadePatton]

OH NO, NOT THE NO WIPE CONTROVERSY! LETS FOLLOW IT UP WITH THE BLOW/NO BLOW CONTROVERSY, THAT'S ALWAYS FUN.

Blow toobs yo!   

There's much more addressed in the that old thread.  There are lots of old treasures around here like that, and that's the beauty of a forum rather than another FB group page--which feeds the whole "blurt out your questions, every chance you get" type of "research" conducted by too many these days.

And it's not to "revive" a debate amongst the old hacks,  but to GIVE NEW FOLKS some tiny bit of understanding upon which they can try/apply/learn more.

[Pete G.]

How about a sticky on how to pronounce Sapergia?

[Daryl]

LOL - Pete - you would be surprised at ALL of the variations we've heard over the years. Sah-PURR-gee-ah works just fine. 
Good find, wade.

[hanshi]

OH NO, NOT THE NO WIPE CONTROVERSY! LETS FOLLOW IT UP WITH THE BLOW/NO BLOW CONTROVERSY, THAT'S ALWAYS FUN.

...or the shoot/no shoot, uh, wait a moment, we've done that.  Never mind. 

[WadePatton]

LOL - Pete - you would be surprised at ALL of the variations we've heard over the years. Sah-PURR-gee-ah works just fine. 
Good find, wade.

And now I know. Wasn't sure, but now we've got that settled.  Daryl I was looking up some bit of info on shotgunning--and that thread was somehow in the results. Since it has lots of good back and forth, I posted this pointer thread.

Didn't put it up to encourage debate and taking sides but as an informational thread for those who had never heard of the wipeless shooting of our guns and most of the details necessary to make it happen.

[Daryl]

I thought it was a good thread, too.

[thecapgunkid]

The original comment rings pretty true....for those of us who have been on this forum for more than a year.  BUT...

What about the new guys?  Has anybody thought about setting up a new guy category that has all these well worn topics?  The rest of the forum is so well organized and relevant.

For the record;  I lived most of my youth in the shadow of Gary Geiger, center fielder for the Red Sox.  Nobody called me Greg.  Would have been OK but  his lifetime average was .250.
SO, HERE GOES;

With many thanks to D Taylor, who has contributed so much here

Sa-Pur-Gee-uh... one of the more distinguished guys who runs the forum

Sah-pur-GEE-uh...a lesser known guide on the Lewis and Clark expedition

Sa-PUR-Ga...another guy with home movies at the Kennedy Assassination

Sap-guh...the way they say it in Pittsburgh

What d'ya think?

I don't weant to talk about Geiger Counter.  Every time I told my people my last name it'd be...Like the Geiger Counter?

Yeah.  He was my Grand Uncle...John Counter...

Thanks again for everything, D Taylor.

[WadePatton]

I thought it was a good thread, too.

My emphasis here on "wiping" was to offset the title of the old thread, which had not one thing to do with wiping and would never show up in a "titles only" search attempt. 

[LynnC]

Thats an interesting suggestion......A starter section 

We could call it “Everything You Ever wanted to Know about the care and shooting of the American Longrifle but were afraid to ask. 😉

Sorry for the funnin ..... it just might work !

[Mike from OK]

Thats an interesting suggestion......A starter section 

We could call it “Everything You Ever wanted to Know about the care and shooting of the American Longrifle but were afraid to ask. 😉

Sorry for the funnin ..... it just might work !

A page for newbies isn't a bad idea. I had been shooting front-stuffers for nigh on 20 years when I became a member here... And I still learned a lot. Heck, I think I learn something new every time I'm here.

Mike

[MuskratMike]

Not needed.
 I have been shooting these darn things since the 70's and I still read this forum daily and learn things all the time. Some things are basic but are either new to me or I have forgotten. If I see a thread I am not interested in I just pass it by. I don't feel compelled to respond in writing to every post. Remember some of our readers may not be new but have limited knowledge and are looking for advise form our "seasoned" contributors.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it".

[galudwig]

Thats an interesting suggestion......A starter section 

We could call it “Everything You Ever wanted to Know about the care and shooting of the American Longrifle but were afraid to ask. 😉

Sorry for the funnin ..... it just might work !

More like “Everything You Ever wanted to Know about the care and shooting of the American Longrifle but "shouldn't ask about until you've done a thorough Forum Search."

I like the idea of posting stickies, tutorials, videos, etc. on "How To" topics for shooters; beginner or experienced. Wade linked to a good thread at the start of this one. There is information about several subjects in that thread that is useful to shooters of all experience levels (I had forgotten about the topic and the link was very helpful). However, I don't believe stickies should considered the last word on any subject. I have to wonder just which topics about shooting will be fair game for people to ask about once everything is in a sticky?

Everyone digests and processes information differently. Are people who still have questions about the information they read in the stickies going get the same treatment from the Forum that they do now? Are you going to implement a disclaimer that a person must agree to, stating they read all the stickies pertaining to their question before they are allowed to proceed to the Shooting Forum to ask questions? How will you know whether or not to chastise them otherwise? I don't believe a discussion forum is truly a discussion forum without discussion. It's basically a book and reading a book creates questions, which in turn leads to discussion (i.e. why many people end up here). If you are going to specify what people are allowed to ask about, you might as well just relegate the Shooting Forum to the Tutorial section.

The only people who seem to have problems with people asking repetitive questions are the people who are tired of answering them. Stickies seem to be the preferred method to avoid doing so. I get it. Fortunately, there are still plenty of Forum members that like answering questions and promoting discussion. If you are not one of those, go ahead and write up your stickies. People may or may not read them; unless of course it's required... 

[Daryl]

LOL - long time friend, now passed on, used to call me and say :

"Daryls, don't keep telling them to use tight combinations.
We might have to shoot against them sometime! Then he'd
 laugh - he had such an infectious laugh". Miss him greatly.

[galudwig]

Disclaimer: this question is for Daryl. For others who are tired of reading or answering this question, just move on.

I see tons of merit in the tight, wet patch combo when loading, then shooting shortly thereafter and doing that repeatedly through the day. However, I've never tried the "wet" patches you describe for hunting. For hunting, I currently use a 50/50 water:Ballistol mix that in reality is just Ballistol after the water is allowed to evaporate. Have you ever had an issue with your really wet patches degrading the powder or bore? I'm just curious whether you've noticed any negative affects from a wet patch sitting in the bore for extended periods of time. I'm not doubting this part of the equation in any way. I'm just wanting to hear more about your experience with wet hunting patches. Thank you.

[LynnC]

Not Daryl but I’ll give it a shot.....Wet patch for targets, much shooting. Grease patch for hunting as it requires few shots and at times may remain loaded for days at a time. Truly dry Ballist patch might work for hunting though ive never tried it.......Lynn

[Daryl]

I've used a gooey/wet bear-grease or marmot oil patch for hunting and experienced no problems with migration of the oil/grease. That is, I noticed no extra fouling when reloading and no change of the point of impact.
Nowadays and for many years, for a hunting lube, I use either Neetsfoot oil, patch wet, or Track's Mink Oil, patch soaked then squeezed out slightly. Same results at with the bear grease and marmot oil.
For the December primitive moose hunt, I ended up with Mink Oil lubed patch for the first shot, with a card wad between the patched ball and powder as I thought there might be lube migration. Subsequent shots were paper ctgs from my pocket. In effect, the first load of patch ball was not necessary, as the paper ctgs. hit the same poi and gave the same accuracy.  In my .69, this barrier wad did not effect the POI, however, if other rifles, the use of a wad changed the POI- so- one MUST check this before hand.  If wanting to use the wad, make sure you test it first.  Without a wad and using Neetsfoot Oil as lube, my rifle has been loaded for up to 3 months, yet when discharged, no hesitation and the ball striking as it should. I immediately reloaded and No Problems experienced.
So- if you want a barrier, just because, have at it, merely check to ensure the point of impact or accuracy does not change.

[galudwig]

Thanks for the info. I like the card idea. What thickness are you using? Using fowler components as reference, something like a single overshot card, nitro card, or something thicker like 1/4 of a cushion wad? Just wondering from my experiments with my smoothbore where I split a cushion wad into 1/3's and place it underneath the shot. It seems to help my patterns. Never used wads in a rifle before, though I've read of people doing it. It would be neat to experiment with cards and POI.

I know I've taken my Ballistol/water mix patches (after the water evaporated) and laid a loose charge of powder on it for more than a week. Powder still burnt without a problem (no noticeable migration). I guess I was just wrongly assuming there was water in your mix somewhere. Since the "wet" is some type of "oil" and not with water, there would be no corrosion concerns. Maybe I'll try experimenting with just straight Ballistol and squeezing it out slightly like you do.

Once again, thanks for the insight. Greatly appreciated! 

[Daryl]

When I did it, I used a card wad about 1/10" thick. A nitro wad, ie: normal OPowder wad would be 1/8", but the circle fly ones, are actually 3 layers.
I did not want to use a soft wad or one that would absorb lube form the patch.

[hanshi]

Often a patch (felt, paper, etc) is used when I hunt or just shooting for fun; not always but often.  Mink oil is my lube of choice when roaming the bush, and Hoppes, or something similar, for everything else.  I use wet, not dripping, patches.  Even when there's no op wad used I've never experienced any problem with powder contamination.  And I don't wipe the bore during shooting and don't want to.  Sometimes guns are left loaded (grease patch) for months without issues.

[WadePatton]

Often a patch (felt, paper, etc) is used when I hunt or just shooting for fun; not always but often.  Mink oil is my lube of choice when roaming the bush, and Hoppes, or something similar, for everything else.  I use wet, not dripping, patches.  Even when there's no op wad used I've never experienced any problem with powder contamination.  And I don't wipe the bore during shooting and don't want to.  Sometimes guns are left loaded (grease patch) for months without issues.

If your gun won't fire a months old load, you're not doing it right is my experience.  I don't reload my deer gun until I fire it and that might be months after season before I shoot it. Specifically: NFO saturated denim patch, quill in the touch hole.