Author Topic: Short Starters: When?  (Read 9470 times)

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2019, 12:06:00 AM »
I just picked up another original barrel from a percussion rifle. It’s 36” long, 1.050” at the breech, .940 or so at the muzzle. Looks like something mid 1800s. About the size of a typical “plains rifle” barrel. It has probably been shortened at the muzzle about an inch because the front sight dovetail is mighty close to the muzzle. As is usual, the bore is seriously funneled at the muzzle with a flat muzzle face (no crown).  It is one ugly barrel but with 20 hours of work will have a nicely freshed bore around .480, I’m guessing. I’ll get muzzle and mid barrel bore dimensions and some pictures tonight. (At muzzle it is .453 and mid bore it is .432.)  How does this relate? If it wasn’t crusty one could seat the ball with a thumb and ram it home with a rod. Like every original rifled percussion barrel (from sporting guns) I’ve had in the shop. Not coned in the modern sense. Rifling extends to the muzzle. But the forcing cone is long, at least an inch. This would allow a fair bit of ramrod into the bore before things got tight when loading.


Im not suggesting anyone change their way of loading from what suits their needs and preferences. Just information on original barrels. I think the modern style of a uniform bore to the muzzle with a slightly countersunk crown is a late development on sporting rifles. Maybe as late as the “revival” era in the early 1900s. Maybe earlier, 1860s though I’ve seen plenty of 1860s barrels with this funneling and square faced breech. The easiest way to start seeing a trend is to look at face-on pictures of muzzles of original rifles. If there’s no crown and no provision for a false muzzle, and it’s a round ball barrel, it’s about guaranteed it is funneled but with grooves all the way to the muzzle.







« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 02:54:31 AM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2019, 01:07:25 AM »
This has been discussed here a number of times.  Something similar to what we today call a "short-starter" was used by the US Army at least by 1840.  The response below is from 2014.  I added the bold highlighting below.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32559.msg312499#msg312499

Regarding Short Starters:

The British Army Rifle Regiment were equiped with what was referred to as a loading mallet.  However, no detail descriptions or instructions for use have ever been found.

Along this same line, I found this regarding a similar device used by the U.S. Army:

Practical Instructions for Military Officers, for the District of Massachusetts, published 1811

Equipment

The balls attached to the cartridges are enclosed in a linen or milled leather patch well saturated with grease; when the powder is emptied into the rifle, the ball is to be separated from the paper, placed upon the muzzle and driven in with a stroke of the mallet, as will be described in the exercise of the rifle.

The bayonet must be slung on the left side, in a scabbard, the belt of which buckles round the waist.

The pouch is worn in front like those of the cavalry, and the belt also buckles round the waist.  To this belt a case is fitted for the handle of the mallet, which must hang down the right thigh.

Loading from Cartridge

V. Load!  One Compound Motion
Turn up the right hand and shake the powder into the barrel, pressing the cartridge with the thumb and finger, to force out the powder; instantly bring the paper to the mouth and with the teeth separate it from the ball and, patch, which place upon the muzzle, the stitched side up, and instantly slide the left hand to the muzzle and place the fore finger upon the ball; at the same time, with the right hand, grasp the mallet, draw it partly out, and seize the handle.

VI. Drive Ball!  One Compound Motion
Bring up the mallet, flipping the finger from the ball, and with one or two strokes drive the ball into the muzzle; with a quick motion, place the end of the handle upon the ball and grasp it with the thumb and finger of the left hand, and with a few smart strokes upon the mallet with the right hand, drive the ball down the full length of the handle; instantly return the mallet to its sheath and seize the ramrod with the thumb and finger of the same hand, the thumb up.

Loading Loose Ball and Powder

V. Load! One Compound Motion
Pour the powder into the barrel, drop the measure and grasp the rifle with the left hand a little below the right; disengage the right hand, carry it down to the pouch, take out a ball and patch and carry them to the muzzle, place the patch upon the muzzle and the ball upon the patch, flip up the left hand and place the fore finger upon the ball, the other fingers round the muzzle, and with the right seize the mallet as in loading with cartridge.

VI. Drive Ball - As explained in Loading with Cartridge

My guess is that these instructions may well have come from U.S. Officers reading British Army manuals.

I would also question why non of the at approximately 1000 men of just one battalion didn't take the use of this device home when they got out of the Army.

In addition there is a patent issued by the U.S. Patent Office for a false muzzle design.

U.S. Patent, #1565
Alvan Clark
April 24, 1840

Justification

… thus more effectually saving the patch from injury, facilitating the loading, enabling the shooter to load as tight as desirable, and at the same time to dispense with the use of the mallet and stick in loading; and also preserving the barrel from injury and wear.

The implication of the above justification for the patent would indicate that loading mallets and sticks were in sufficient widespread use and that there was value in eliminating the need for their use.

It also makes the case that a fair number of people were using either something similar to a single piece short starter like the military loading mallet or were using a two piece short starting system of a mallet and stick.
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Greg Pennell

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2019, 05:49:32 AM »
Rich, not to change the subject too much, but just an observation....if I’m seeing your last photo correctly, only 4 threads in the breech before the hole for the drum?  That seems a mite scant...

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2019, 06:22:35 AM »
Rich, not to change the subject too much, but just an observation....if I’m seeing your last photo correctly, only 4 threads in the breech before the hole for the drum?  That seems a mite scant...

Greg

Greg, on most original percussion rifles the drum partly threads into the breechplug.  I’m not recommending it but 3-4 threads is more common than most would believe.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2019, 05:28:59 PM »
 Nice job on the Thumb Rich ;D

 Tim

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2019, 06:22:30 PM »
So, Rich, a few hours of work, and you will have a great barrel!  So what are you going to do with it?  Plains-type rifle?  Short-barreled target rifle?
What ever you do, I am certain of two things:  1) it will be very nice looking and 2) no matter what you call it, it will be a "St. Louis Rifle"!
Please let us all know how the work progresses.  A few pics of the re-rifling work would be great.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2019, 11:38:21 PM »
Craig, the bore is rough, rough, rough! Looks like a long haul if I continue to work on it. Would make a J&S halfstock, I think.
Andover, Vermont

Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2019, 02:23:42 AM »
Here is my authentic period correct 19th century starter, inspired by an original in Charles E. Hanson’s book, The Plains Rifle:

« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 03:54:19 AM by Smokey Plainsman »

Offline msellers

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Re: Short Starters: When?
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2019, 02:45:06 AM »
That is one nice looking setup you have there SP.
Mike