French tradeguns

[jerrywh]

How many different models of French trade guns were sold on the eastern frontier??

[rich pierce]

I am not sure French trade guns were sold on the eastern frontier to whites, if you mean the 13 colonies. The French traded and gifted guns to the Native Americans in the Great Lakes region to the Atlantic.

That being said our concept of “models” does not easily apply.  Per Kevin Gladysz, there are these basic categories.
Fusils de chasse
Fusils de Ste. Etienne
Fusils de trait
Fusils a’ l’ ancre
Fusils fin and demi-fin
Fusils de facon, demi-facon, and Fusils de maitre

[Stophel]

As Rich said, these would be in the hands primarily of Indians with trading relations with the French.  Possibly they were seen among French settlers along the Mississippi (?), but I think that unless you had direct contact with the French (which ended with the end of the F&I war) you were not likely to see one in most of colonial America.

[Notchy Bob]

This may be peripheral to the question submitted by the original poster, but this thread reminds me of an article I saw a while back, in the Journal of Maritime Archaeology.

In 1817, a US Army boat with military personnel and their families was attacked by Indians while going up the Appalachicola River in northwest Florida.  The battle which ensued precipitated the first Seminole War.  The actual site was found by divers, I think in the 1990's, and was later named "the Flintlock Site."   Subsequent professional archaeological excavation yielded a trove of artifacts, one of which was a lock plate clearly marked TVLLE.

The Indians in this conflict were on the riverbank, so we deduce the lock plate fell out of the boat.  There isn't much we can say for sure, but this at least suggests the possibility of a French gun (or gun part) in the hands of white folks in Florida in 1817.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

[smart dog]

Hi,
It may be that trade between colonial Americans and New France was limited but then begs the question, why was French styling so popular in New England, especially along the Connecticut River?  Certainly, New Englanders captured French arms at Louisburg in 1745 but why adopt the style when building local guns? I suspect French styling was popular and New Englanders copied it for many of their own guns and may have carried on legal or illicit trade with French Canada. They were great smugglers.   

dave   

[Mike Brooks]

Also don't forget WI, MN, IL ,MO ARK. TX, OK,MS , AL, FL. Very wide range of distribution.

[oldtravler61]

  Mike what about Northern Michigan...the Voiourgers....  ? Or however you spell it

[Clark Badgett]

Don't leave out Louisiana

[Mtn Meek]

I can't read French and don't know what all the labels on this map represent, but the blue area can be viewed as the area one could encounter a French trade gun.  The Indians that the French traded with directly often acted as middlemen and traded the French goods, including guns further north and west.

I don't remember the source, but recently read where the Spanish in Santa Fe weren't getting sufficient number of arms from Mexico City to adequately protect themselves from Apache raids.  They made regular trading trips north and east, going as far as the Missouri River, to trade horses, mules, agricultural products, and coarse blankets/rugs with Plains Indians for dried buffalo meat, robes, skins, and especially, French guns.  French gun parts have been found at one of the mountain passes east of Raton Pass by amateur archeologists.

[Mike Brooks]

The map says it all!

[Mike from OK]

Also don't forget WI, MN, IL ,MO ARK. TX, OK,MS , AL, FL. Very wide range of distribution.

Yep. I live near the confluence of the Neosho and Spring rivers which become the Grand River. In turn the Grand River joins the Arkansas river NE of Muskogee.

If I remember my history correctly Jean Pierre Chouteau established a trading post somewhere along the Grand and later on (after the LA Purchase) a trading post and fort (Fort Gibson) were established where the Grand and Verdigris Rivers join the Arkansas River near Muskogee.

I was surprised to learn some big movers and shakers in the fur trade (and US history) spent some time in my little corner of the world... Jean Pierre Chouteau, Nathaniel Hale Pryor, and surprisingly Sam Houston before he went to Texas.

https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entryname=FUR%20TRAPPERS%20AND%20TRADERS

Mike

[Daryl]

The map says it all!

Yes indeed!

[Levy]

Notchy Bob is basically correct.  I had the pleasure of working on the firearms that were recovered from the Flintlock Site on the Apalachicola River in 2002.  The identifiably French musket/trade gun was marked TVLL on the lockplate.  A barrel was also found separated from the lock that appeared French with a flat sighting plane on the top of the barrel and it was still loaded with a lead ball.  Four or five R*W (Wilson) trade guns were also found with the shortest barrel being 28" and the longest 48".  One .62 caliber rifle was also recovered with a swamped 38" barrel (same size ball as the R*W trade guns).  One musket barrel was recovered that didn't have any under pinning lugs and I assumed that it was probably of French or Spanish manufacture and used barrel bands.  James Levy 

[flinchrocket]

Was there any lock with the .62 rifle barrel?