Author Topic: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)  (Read 7043 times)

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2019, 04:07:59 AM »
Take the lock out and see if there is a pin in the lock mortise. It may also be visible from the side plate
 side of the stock or under the side plate. The pin goes through the stock and holds up the front of your triggerguard .

Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2019, 05:38:20 AM »
Hereís what it looks like with the ramrod at the same position it would be if it were in the hole all the way:


Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2019, 05:57:19 AM »
Looks as though you could gain a bit by drilling.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2019, 05:59:43 AM »
You can see that you will only gain 3/8 or so by deepening the hole. If you have a pin punch you could take the guard off and put your ramrod in there and see if it goes to the lug inlet.

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2019, 07:43:00 AM »
Stick something (piece of dowel rod, straightened section of clothes hanger) down the ramrod well until it stops. Make a mark on it and pull it back out. Lay it along the gun so that your mark aligns with the end of the ramrod well/entry thimble and see where the end is in relation to your trigger guard... If the trigger guard is pinned in the front it should give you a fairly close indication of where the lug is.

The builder may have stopped just shy of the lug.

Mike

Online alacran

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2019, 02:24:08 PM »
Hey Smokey,


If anyone could give a little more instruction thatís be appreciated. Thanks guys!!
Ok Smokey. Go to Home Depot or Lowes, They sell 18 inch long Irwin drill bits. You can buy them in 1/4 inch, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16 and 1/2 inch. You may want to take off the trigger guard, and measure the distance from the pin hole to the front of the lug. Mark that distance in your lock mortise. With a tape measure hooked on muzzle you can measure how deep you can go. Mark that length on your drill bit and wrap a piece of tape around it at that point.
. Take the barrel off. Take the lock off. Get a piece of 1/4 inch. ply wood big enough to cover the lock mortise and panel. Use 2inch painters tape and place over the lock panel to protect the finish. Tape the plywood over the lock panel.
 Protect the lock plate side with another piece of ply wood or heavy leather. Now clamp the stock in a vise at the protected lock panels.
Clamp it belly up. If you have a variable speed cordless drill put it in the slower setting. With your drill bit in the drill run it into the ram rod channel, without the drill turning. When it stops at the end of the channel,, back it off about a n 1/8th inch. Start your drill and slowly push it into the wood.  You will feel it cutting into the wood. As you approach the tape on your drill bit go slow, and stop at the tape.
The drilling should take only a couple of minutes, if that much since you will only be going to drill about 3/8th to 1/2 inch deep.
That is how I would do it. But I probably would not waste my time.
The ball and powder column are going to give you about two inches to work with on the ramrod plus what little you are going to gain by drilling.
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2019, 09:29:32 PM »
Your loading rod is the perfect length now.  If you go to all that trouble to make the hole deeper, you'll gain no more than 5/16" at most.  For what??? then it's make another ramrod.  Your rod should be flush with the muzzle when in the gun - not protruding where it will interfere with loading, and a danger to it and the rifle when in the bush.  Waste of time, for no gain.
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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2019, 10:07:00 PM »
Well stated, Taylor!  But we might add that the tip, when sticking out like that, collects a LOT of residue, which in turn, gets all over the rifleman.  And man, you really nailed it with catching on things!
Craig Wilcox
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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2019, 10:09:12 PM »
Your loading rod is the perfect length now.  If you go to all that trouble to make the hole deeper, you'll gain no more than 5/16" at most.  For what??? then it's make another ramrod.  Your rod should be flush with the muzzle when in the gun - not protruding where it will interfere with loading, and a danger to it and the rifle when in the bush.  Waste of time, for no gain.

I see. Not sure if you saw this picture I posted, but as you can see the rod is flush with the muzzle when all the way down:



This looks normal? Iíve had two others rifles, a Lymanís Plains rifle and a TVM Tennessee. Both had the ramrod sticking up about an inch when inserted into the barrel. As I plan to recreated a historical ramrod with tapered tip and thread on tow worm/ball puller, which cannot be used as a loading aid for obvious reasons, my plan was to make the rod about an inch taller than the muzzle. I did this for the one I made for my Lyman GPR and it didnít cause any issues.

Itís just that with the current rod that came with the gun, even with a loaded barrel (I plan to use lighter charges for small game) the rod wouldnít be sticking out but an inch or so and thatís all Iíd have to push down on when seating the ball...

Iíve  decided against drilling the hole any deeper, but for the reasons stated above, will probably make the rammer just a bit longer because:

A) I will NOT be using a modern screw on jag
B) It will be too short for seating the ball
C) It is historically correct for some guns

I will have range rods and modern jags and stuff for the range and when cleaning at home, but for HUNTING in the woods I want to go as period as possible for the rifle and gear. Itís just a personal goal. If they did it back then, so can I, and I want to do it.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 10:12:13 PM by Smokey Plainsman »

Offline hanshi

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2019, 01:56:25 AM »
Being flush with the muzzle it looks like most of mine.  It's long enough for loading and short enough not to snag.
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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2019, 04:38:16 AM »
Being flush with the muzzle it looks like most of mine.  It's long enough for loading and short enough not to snag.

Thanks, Hanshil

Iíve got ten ramrod blanks to work with so will have plenty to ďaspearamintĒ with.

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2019, 05:17:33 AM »
Why do you think you need more than an inch or so sticking out of the barrel to load with? So long as there is enough to pull it out with a finger and thumb after loading you have enough length. The extra length of the worm on the end when cleaning is plenty to grab when using tow. This is really not rocket science, no need to over think it.
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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2019, 05:23:54 AM »
Why do you think you need more than an inch or so sticking out of the barrel to load with? So long as there is enough to pull it out with a finger and thumb after loading you have enough length. The extra length of the worm on the end when cleaning is plenty to grab when using tow. This is really not rocket science, no need to over think it.

Thanks, Clark B. I thought something might be wrong with my rifle but it seems it isnít so.

Online alacran

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2019, 03:56:47 PM »
Smokey, you say you live in Vegas and not many black powder shooters there. I can see by all your questions that you could use some guidance. There is a club in Reno. Muzzle Blasts lists Aubrey Campbell as a contact person
 acinsac@sbcglobal,lakescrosssingmuzzleloaders.org  .
Or you could come to AZWINS in Phoenix in March. The shoot starts Mach 1st (set up). Actual shooting starts on the 2nd. Shooting continues through the 8th, with awards on the 9th. If you pre register the cost is $60.00. The fee includes all matches and targets.
There is camping on the site.
What is most important for you is that there will be enough people there to answer all your questions. Plus you will get to see what a lot of folks are shooting what they used for lubes, balls, patches etc. Plus it will let you see what muzzle loaders are capable of.
Don't know how many Muzzle loading shooters you have been around, but I assure you that the majority of us are more than willing to give you an opinion on how things are done or should be done.
You can access all the info at  azmuzzleloading.com   .
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2019, 09:12:28 PM »
SP:  After thoroughly being involved in both your threads involving the length necessary for a ramrod, I suggest you go ahead and do it the way you think it should be done.  Then, after say 50 years of shooting, making rifles, replacing broken rods from hundreds of other shooter's rifles, you can make a post on this forum when someone else asks this same question, and they will.  You can quote my reply, if you like.
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2019, 09:51:24 PM »
Smokey, you say you live in Vegas and not many black powder shooters there. I can see by all your questions that you could use some guidance. There is a club in Reno. Muzzle Blasts lists Aubrey Campbell as a contact person
 acinsac@sbcglobal,lakescrosssingmuzzleloaders.org  .
Or you could come to AZWINS in Phoenix in March. The shoot starts Mach 1st (set up). Actual shooting starts on the 2nd. Shooting continues through the 8th, with awards on the 9th. If you pre register the cost is $60.00. The fee includes all matches and targets.
There is camping on the site.
What is most important for you is that there will be enough people there to answer all your questions. Plus you will get to see what a lot of folks are shooting what they used for lubes, balls, patches etc. Plus it will let you see what muzzle loaders are capable of.
Don't know how many Muzzle loading shooters you have been around, but I assure you that the majority of us are more than willing to give you an opinion on how things are done or should be done.
You can access all the info at  azmuzzleloading.com   .

winner winner.
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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2019, 10:13:00 PM »
SP:  After thoroughly being involved in both your threads involving the length necessary for a ramrod, I suggest you go ahead and do it the way you think it should be done.  Then, after say 50 years of shooting, making rifles, replacing broken rods from hundreds of other shooter's rifles, you can make a post on this forum when someone else asks this same question, and they will.  You can quote my reply, if you like.

I didnít mean to offend you sir.

Iím going to take all the advice and try it just ďas isĒ, same length flush at muzzle. Seems it should be ďA-okayĒ. Thanks!!

Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2019, 10:14:56 PM »
Smokey, you say you live in Vegas and not many black powder shooters there. I can see by all your questions that you could use some guidance. There is a club in Reno. Muzzle Blasts lists Aubrey Campbell as a contact person
 acinsac@sbcglobal,lakescrosssingmuzzleloaders.org  .
Or you could come to AZWINS in Phoenix in March. The shoot starts Mach 1st (set up). Actual shooting starts on the 2nd. Shooting continues through the 8th, with awards on the 9th. If you pre register the cost is $60.00. The fee includes all matches and targets.
There is camping on the site.
What is most important for you is that there will be enough people there to answer all your questions. Plus you will get to see what a lot of folks are shooting what they used for lubes, balls, patches etc. Plus it will let you see what muzzle loaders are capable of.
Don't know how many Muzzle loading shooters you have been around, but I assure you that the majority of us are more than willing to give you an opinion on how things are done or should be done.
You can access all the info at  azmuzzleloading.com   .

Very interesting. Iíll look into those. Reno is 7 hours away but it could well be worth the drive. Phoenix isnít too far but Iíll be deployed in March, sadly.

Yep wish I was back home East! I grew up in Southern Illinois and there are muzzleloaders there for sure, grew up only about 40 minutes from Fort de Charters.

Offline msellers

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2019, 10:19:08 PM »
SP I live about 7 hours north of you, and would venture a guess that Vegas has more black powder shooters than you would think. The difference being, like here that they aren't out front shooting for all to see. Especially the traditional shooters tend to keep to themselves around here.
Mike

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2019, 12:18:14 AM »
SP:  I wasn't offended, and my reply was perhaps condescending.  For that I apologize.  What I was hearing from you in this discussion, when no one agreed that a ramrod should be longer than the muzzle, that you were going to do it anyway.  I see now that you have agreed with those who answered your question.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2019, 04:39:57 AM »
SP:  I wasn't offended, and my reply was perhaps condescending.  For that I apologize.  What I was hearing from you in this discussion, when no one agreed that a ramrod should be longer than the muzzle, that you were going to do it anyway.  I see now that you have agreed with those who answered your question.

No itís okay! Just like I said on my first two rifles the rammer sticks up some in an empty bore but I was just a mite discombobulated since when I inserted the rammer into this bore it went all the way in. Many folks have no said this is normal and will not cause problems during a reload. Good to here!

Offline okawbow

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2019, 04:55:54 AM »
I just spent the last 3 days hunting the woods with a rifle that has 2Ē of ramrod sticking out. Never a problem. Much rather have enough ramrod to pull out easily in a hunting situation, than fumbling with trying to pull out a short rod. My .30 cal. Tennessee squirrel rifle ramrod stick out 4Ē. You learn to deal with it.
As in life; itís the journey, not the destination. How you get there matters most.

Online alacran

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2019, 03:46:04 PM »
God Speed to you on your deployment.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2019, 08:07:12 AM »
God Speed to you on your deployment.

Thank you!!


Smokey Plainsman

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Re: Longer Than Barrel? (Ramrods)
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2019, 08:08:25 AM »
So Iíve been using the ramrod as is, flush with the muzzle. Guys it works well. With a load in, it stick up about a inch and a half. Itís enough. And with a jag itís plenty. You guys sure know a bunch!!