Deepening Ramrod Hole?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys I already mentioned this in one of my other threads but my new rifle appears to have a too-short of a ramrod hole. When the ramrod, which is flush with the muzzle when in the pipes, is fitted into the bore, it looks like this:



I used a light and looked into the hole and there is more wood there. From my readings and experience with two of my last rifles, shouldn’t the ramrod be long enough to stick up about an inch when placed inside the bore and pushed down to the bottom?

Should I deepen the hole? If so, how? Seems I’d only need to go another inch or so. Keep in mind I don’t have a shop with a bunch of tools, I’m not a builder. I have my trusty little Ryobi 18 volt drill and that’s about it. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!!

-Smokey

[msellers]

All of mine are like this. Makes it easy to confirm if there is an obstruction in the bore.
Mike

[Scota4570]

Without looking at it carefully I can not say if deepening the hole will cause a problem.  I drill the as deep as I can.  I need something to hold on to when cleaning the bore to enable pulling the patch out. 

IF you can not drill the hole deeper you could make a long jag. 

[Long Ears]

Well, I like mine to stick out an inch or so also but when it's loaded it will be fine or when you put a jag on it. Without a 48" long ramrod drill bit and a block and clamp good luck making it deeper. You'll have to remove the thimbles and the entry pipe to re-drill it. Most of us that build have the bits to do this as long as the path is clear to drill. Bob

[Smokey Plainsman]

Well the under rib is held on with screws, this is a half stocked rifle.

[Smokey Plainsman]

All of mine are like this. Makes it easy to confirm if there is an obstruction in the bore.
Mike

So some rifles are just naturally like this?

[msellers]

All of mine are like this. Makes it easy to confirm if there is an obstruction in the bore.
Mike

So some rifles are just naturally like this?

I think it depends on the builder, the school, and basic preference.

[Smokey Plainsman]

All of mine are like this. Makes it easy to confirm if there is an obstruction in the bore.
Mike

So some rifles are just naturally like this?

I think it depends on the builder, the school, and basic preference.

I see, thank you. So it’s not necessarily improperly built?

[smylee grouch]

Can you place a longer rod (range rod) inn the rr hole as far as it will go, mark it and pull it out and measure along the side of the stock to see what you might have left to drill?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Here is the lock off showing the pin for the front lug of the triggerguard. The ramrod is flush with the muzzle. Would the triggerguard lug be that wide? Should I remove the triggerguard to check?

I pretty sure it’s wood when I look down the ramrod hole. Not entirely sure, though, it’s hard to tell.

[rich pierce]

Are you sure you want to fiddle with it? I think you said you’re not a builder. Things could go bad. Not sure if you have a ramrod drill.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Are you sure you want to fiddle with it? I think you said you’re not a builder. Things could go bad. Not sure if you have a ramrod drill.

I’m not sure, either. Since I don’t have any of the tools, maybe I could send it to a riflesmith, maybe someone here, and they could lengthen it for me?

[Joe Schell]

I'd leave it alone. When cleaning the gun a long jag will give you plenty length to pull the rod out and its long enough to load the rifle.

[Smokey Plainsman]

I'd leave it alone. When cleaning the gun a long jag will give you plenty length to pull the rod out and its long enough to load the rifle.

That’s the fly in the ointment... I’m trying to go for total authenticity and no “long jag” fits into that.

I am going to make a replacement rod 1.25” longer than the current one. By my calculations, it should equal out to roughly 2”-2.25” when loaded. This should give enough to work with for seating the ball, yet shouldn’t be so long as to snag easily on most obstacles. From my research, oversized rammers are period for a late percussion rifle. The tip will be a tapered iron ferrule with female 10x32 threads and I’ll carry a long tow worm and ball’s puller in my shooting pouch.

This will be period accurate as well as being effective for loading and swabbing the bore.

[Justin Urbantas]

Many hardware stores sell 3/8" drill bits that are 18" long.
It might be long enough to drill your half stock rod hole a little deeper. You'd have to measure it, I don't know.
It would literally take 3 minutes to deepen it an inch or two.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Many hardware stores sell 3/8" drill bits that are 18" long.
It might be long enough to drill your half stock rod hole a little deeper. You'd have to measure it, I don't know.
It would literally take 3 minutes to deepen it an inch or two.

Thank you, Justin! I’m guessing I should remove the barrel? On this rifle, there is a tang screw and I believe I’d need to drive out the pin in the middle of the brass escutcheon on the forestock?

[Justin Urbantas]

Yeah, you'd need to remove the pin holding in the barrel. If it has a hook breech, the barrel should just tip out. If not, you'll need to take out the lock bolts and tang bolt.

[smallpatch]

Every gun I build is made with a rod the same length as the bore.  With a load in the barrel, there is plenty to hold on to.
As far as cleaning, a jag will make it plenty long.
Most use a bench rod for cleaning.
No need to have a longer rod.  Nothing looks worse to Mr than a ramrod sticking 3" past the muzzle.
You don't need it.

[WadePatton]

Every gun I build is made with a rod the same length as the bore.  With a load in the barrel, there is plenty to hold on to.
As far as cleaning, a jag will make it plenty long.
Most use a bench rod for cleaning.
No need to have a longer rod.  Nothing looks worse to Mr than a ramrod sticking 3" past the muzzle.
You don't need it.

I'll weigh in here. Agreed, no extra inches are needed for packing and whatever style worm you screw in will make it work a wiper. Loaded such that wiping isn't necessary makes that point moot.

I like my gun to be sturdy on both ends and not have any fragile bits hanging out. But I do prefer the longer rifles.

If I were you and I was convinced that drilling was what had to be done, I'd find a knowledgeable gunsmith or stocker or builder somewhere.  You can take your time doing that because that stick is perfect for loading and you have a range rod for cleaning. And just start shooting it, getting familiar with the gun, sorting out combos, sight adjustments, etc. until you find hands-on assistance.  It may take some hunting and digging but there are crafty folks all around.

[flinchrocket]

That is a pretty nice shooting iron you have there smokey. Like Smallpatch says the rod you have will work just fine, so I woundn't worry to much about that. Also, if your ramrod is sticking out past the end of the barrel it will be in the way of loading the rifle unless you remove it beforehand.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Alright, guys. I went to Home Depot and got a Bosch 3/8” 18” drill bit. Turns out it’s tapered from the rear to the front of the bit, which miked at over .380”. Would not fit into the nosecap. Yeah... I’m not doing this I don’t think. I’m going to have the jag extend from the muzzle by approx 1” or a bit less. Reason is I’m planning to use an authentic style worm and puller set on a tapered tip. The worm and puller cannot be used as an extension because they’d either mangle the ball or mangle my hand depending on the direction!

I’ve also contacted someone about a reversible worm that matches the looks of one supposedly supplied with a rifle made in 1820.

Having the rammer extended “just a bit” from the muzzle seems to not be against historical correctness for my type of rifle. If anything, I’ve got 10 hickory rammer blanks coming from Dan Putz so have plenty to work with for experimenting.

Since I had the gun apart, I was able to check for markings (there was none, the maker may have removed them) and applied some Johnson’s Paste Wax to the underside of the barrel for added protection.

Thanks guys, was not about to start dickering with the nosecap or bore out more wood or anything crazy like that.

[Justin Urbantas]

Just chuck up the bit on the drill, and spin it while holding sand paper to it. It will get the shank to the dimension you need. Or even faster,  chuck it up and spin it against a belt sander/grinder

[Daryl]

Guys I already mentioned this in one of my other threads but my new rifle appears to have a too-short of a ramrod hole. When the ramrod, which is flush with the muzzle when in the pipes, is fitted into the bore, it looks like this:



I used a light and looked into the hole and there is more wood there. From my readings and experience with two of my last rifles, shouldn’t the ramrod be long enough to stick up about an inch when placed inside the bore and pushed down to the bottom?

Should I deepen the hole? If so, how? Seems I’d only need to go another inch or so. Keep in mind I don’t have a shop with a bunch of tools, I’m not a builder. I have my trusty little Ryobi 18 volt drill and that’s about it. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!!

-Smokey

Level when inside the muzzle is normal. Thus, when a jag is mounted to one end, there is enough rod to hold when cleaning.

[Smokey Plainsman]

Just chuck up the bit on the drill, and spin it while holding sand paper to it. It will get the shank to the dimension you need. Or even faster,  chuck it up and spin it against a belt sander/grinder

The cutting end (tip) of the bit is too wide. No offense but that seems like it would ruin the cutting edge of the drill bit very easily and would take a lot of sanding.

Okay so let me put it this way guys. Imagine I load WITH NO JAG. I just use the rod as is, using the bare end of the rod to seat the ball. With gunpowder and ball, that’s only going to raise the level of the rod what maybe an inch above the muzzle? Is that going to be enough to push the charge safely down?

I understand many here use the modern jags to load with and are not familiar with original ramrod tips and accessories.

[WadePatton]

Just chuck up the bit on the drill, and spin it while holding sand paper to it. It will get the shank to the dimension you need. Or even faster,  chuck it up and spin it against a belt sander/grinder

The cutting end (tip) of the bit is too wide. No offense but that seems like it would ruin the cutting edge of the drill bit very easily and would take a lot of sanding.

Okay so let me put it this way guys. Imagine I load WITH NO JAG. I just use the rod as is, using the bare end of the rod to seat the ball. With gunpowder and ball, that’s only going to raise the level of the rod what maybe an inch above the muzzle? Is that going to be enough to push the charge safely down?

When there's only an inch left, you've got the load down.  Then, if you do as some of us-that is after the load bottoms out, you put something large across the end of the rammer and give it a fair rap with the palm of your hand to slightly compress the load (instead of rod-bouncing).  I use a dimple in the osage of the knob/handle on my starter, THEN, that inch is plenty of rod to grab and pull it out.