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Author Topic: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures  (Read 4802 times)

Offline WKevinD

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Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« on: December 25, 2019, 08:43:22 PM »
A Jaeger was brought into my shop last week. Silver mounts with gold inlays and what look like family crests on the butt plate, nice burl wood stock (broken in three places). It looks like it was a high end piece when new. "Liberated" from persons unknown in Munich at the end of the war in the forties and brought back in a GIs duffel. Any thoughts?  Kevin







« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 10:07:58 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2019, 10:35:36 PM »
Definitely wasn't made for a farmer.  Can you post photo of the lock and cheekpiece.  This would be a great piece for
over a fireplace.  Very cool.  The family crests might answer who the owner was.  The maker had to have left his mark
somewhere.  Are there proofs on the barrel?
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Offline 120RIR

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2019, 11:48:00 PM »
The crest on the left is from Saxony; on the right is Prussia.  Perhaps the display of both reflects the owner's familial background?
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2019, 03:00:34 AM »
Quote from: Shreckmeister on December 25, 2019, 10:35:36 PM
Definitely wasn't made for a farmer.  Can you post photo of the lock and cheekpiece.  This would be a great piece for
over a fireplace.  Very cool.  The family crests might answer who the owner was.  The maker had to have left his mark
somewhere.  Are there proofs on the barrel?

I haven't removed the barrel yet to look at the bottom, the top is filled with deep engraving and gold inlay. The barrel is a heavy damascus pattern and I want to see whats been covered. I'll take some more pics of the lock and cheeksides later tomorrow, it's opening day for PA flintlock so I'll be preoccupied tomorrow AM. There is a name on a banner on the lock that I have assumed was the lockmaker. I had posted a picture of the broken cock last week.
Kevin
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2019, 03:06:38 AM »
More photos will be great.  Detailed shots are nice, but shots which show more of the rifle would be wonderful.  These leave me wondering what the rest of it is like!  Thanks for posting.

Jim
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2019, 04:08:58 AM »
Quote from: Jim Kibler on December 26, 2019, 03:06:38 AM
More photos will be great.  Detailed shots are nice, but shots which show more of the rifle would be wonderful.  These leave me wondering what the rest of it is like!  Thanks for posting.

Jim

Yes I do need to post some overall pictures, all the pictures will be from my phone so the details are the easiest to get with limited lighting and shop clutter.
Kevin
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger- more pictures
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2019, 07:38:15 PM »
More pictures and a name on the banner- The lock banner has Schmeiser A Eisenbach engraved on it. Builder, owner, lock maker? Someone has called the monogram on the thumbpiece as belonging to Albert Saxe Colburg (?)

Sorry about the poor lighting and shop clutter.
Kevin

 











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Offline OLUT

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2019, 08:15:56 PM »
Gardner's book lists an "EISENACH, SCHMETSER - THURN, THURINGEN, GERMANY, before and after 1728" .... are they the same person ,or?
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2019, 07:01:03 PM »
Schmetser is the maker and he was located in the town of Eisenach within Thüringen Germany.
I can't find anything about him online.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2019, 07:47:06 PM »
Is it just me or does the bow and grip rail design of that guard look out of place?  It's looks later than the remainder of the gun, which actually looks fairly early.  It almost looks like (perhaps) there was damage to the guard at some point and a new, later piece was joined onto the fore and aft finials at both the forward 'post' and rear finger tab.

Wonderful piece but that guard has been bugging me.  Could be wrong.
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WESTbury

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2019, 08:43:27 PM »
There appears to be a considerable gap with the inletting around the front finial.

It is a beautiful rifle in any case.

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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2019, 10:48:04 PM »
Quote from: Eric Kettenburg on December 27, 2019, 07:47:06 PM
Is it just me or does the bow and grip rail design of that guard look out of place?  It's looks later than the remainder of the gun, which actually looks fairly early.  It almost looks like (perhaps) there was damage to the guard at some point and a new, later piece was joined onto the fore and aft finials at both the forward 'post' and rear finger tab.

Wonderful piece but that guard has been bugging me.  Could be wrong.

The gun was broken in three pieces, held by the muzzle and smashed into a building. The guard has a very poor solder job at the front of the bow and has been squashed tighter to the stock preventing the triggers from being set. The engraving style and high relief engraving seems to match the finial on the butt plate.
Kevin
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2019, 10:50:28 PM »
Quote from: WESTbury on December 27, 2019, 08:43:27 PM
There appears to be a considerable gap with the inletting around the front finial.

It is a beautiful rifle in any case.

I think you are mistaking the perimeter molding at the trigger guard for a gap
Kevin
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2019, 10:54:49 PM »
Quote from: Shreckmeister on December 27, 2019, 07:01:03 PM
Schmetser is the maker and he was located in the town of Eisenach within Thüringen Germany.
I can't find anything about him online.

Any dates?

Kevin
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2019, 11:36:14 PM »
Yes, that's raised molding around the guard and not a gap
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WESTbury

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2019, 12:30:10 AM »

[/quote]
I think you are mistaking the perimeter molding at the trigger guard for a gap
Kevin
[/quote]

Yes, you are correct. I can just about make out the molding in the profile view of the triggerguard.

Would love to see more photos if you are going to perform any restoration on the broken cock.

Thanks for posting the photos, it's a great rifle.
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Offline WKevinD

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Early Jaeger new pictures
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2019, 08:43:45 PM »
I finally removed the lock and triggers in the early Jaeger I've been trying to identify. It looks like the gun has never been fired, deep blue iridescent coloring on the tumbler, bridel and springs. The triggers are exceptional in form and function.
Some pictures attached:

Kevin










« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 10:08:49 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline Carl Young

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Re: Early Jaeger new pictures
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2019, 10:00:19 PM »
Thanks for the photos Kevin, much appreciated.
Carl
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WESTbury

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2019, 10:17:12 PM »
Wow. The interior coloring of the lock is very similar to the interior of locks I have from the 1820's-1840's dated Springfield Armory flints. The heat bluing on the screws, bridle, and tumbler really stands out.

Any ideas on the approximate date of manufacture of the rifle.

Thanks for posting.
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2019, 11:46:57 PM »
Quote from: WESTbury on December 30, 2019, 10:17:12 PM


Any ideas on the approximate date of manufacture of the rifle.

Pure speculation but based on the builders (Schmeter) dates of activity 1720s. The coloring is bright in the pan as well making me think "never fired"
The filework on the bridle and springs is refined and flawless.
The inside of the trigger guard bow is engraved (in a germanic script) F No.1 ???
I wish this thing could talk.
Kevin
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2019, 06:49:27 PM »
Could a photo of the decorated front of the frizzed be possible? This lock is has some similar characteristics to one I had in my shop several years ago. It is somewhat frustrating that numerous fine Jaegers were not signed in any fashion.  Two of my finest have no signature. Should you ever consider allowing molds to be made of the mounts, let me know. I am always on the search for models, with which to use in my Seminars.
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2019, 07:16:28 PM »
Ron, here is the frizzen face. I thought I had it uploaded already.
Kevin

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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2019, 09:59:54 PM »
Really a wonderful Jaeger, for sure.

Should you ever make molds, or have them made, please mark me down for a set of castings.

Hard to believe that something so beautiful is almost 300 years old.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2020, 12:35:02 AM »
WKevinD That is the back or front of the frizzen. The face is where the flint strikes.  A picture of the face would show whether at least, the lock had been 'fired'.
I failed to see any pictures of the actual pan's bottom so could see no colours in the pan.
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: Trying to identify early Jaeger - New Pictures
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2020, 01:36:22 AM »
Daryl, Ron was asking for "the decorated front" which has a face on it. sorry for the confusion.
I'll try and get a picture of the pan and "striking face" of the frizzen ;)
Kevin
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