Author Topic: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion  (Read 2474 times)

Offline gibster

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Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« on: December 25, 2019, 11:01:26 PM »
Had a gentlemen call me a couple weeks ago saying that he had an old rifle that was his Fathers and was left to him. His Father was a Park Ranger at the Blue Ridge Parkway in the '60s when he bought this. That's all he knew about it. We made arrangements to meet and it turns out, he wanted my money more than he wanted the rifle and I wanted the rifle more than I wanted the money. Funny how that works out sometimes.  It's a plain jane rifle but is in great shape. Looking at the barrel pins going through the stock, it doesn't look like they were ever removed. The only markings are on the lock which is stamped BLUEGRASS.  The barrel is 39 5/8-inches long and mikes to about a .44-caliber. The rifling is strong, but a little dark. The stock is plain Maple with a little curl here and there. The entry thimble and the front thimble are brass and the middle thimble is iron. Of course the butt plate, toe plate and trigger guard are iron as well. The toe plate is nailed on.  The spear point tang is held with 2-screws and has a couple of "X's" filed into it. It's an interesting rifle and welcome your thoughts and comments. I will have it at the Alabama show in a few weeks if anyone wants to take a closer look at it.




























Offline redheart

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2019, 11:40:16 PM »
Congrats, what a great find. I love it!
Thanks for showing it! :)

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2019, 11:51:59 PM »
Nice looking rifle. It has a number of Kentucky details that include: straight comb and toe lines on butt, butt plate return a normal length where TN returns are often longer, extended square shank coming off percussion side lug, flattened area at bottom of cheekpiece, at times no flange on rear pipe, and long 2-screw tang. The "BlueGrass" lock was probably purchased in Louisville as well...or from a store that purchased its stock from Louisville. The nicely shaped guard for an iron mounted gun, along with good looking triggers, are also found on southeastern KY guns, as are the mixed-metal mounts with larger pieces being forged iron and small pieces sheet brass, as on this rifle.

However, the rifle also has a couple of details that are abnormal for a Kentucky gun: large side facings with lots of wood left in front of and behind lock plate, thick and nailed-on toe plate, and short barrel well under 44". The sharp ridge coming off the back of the cheekpiece and running over to the butt is also seldom seen in KY. If it is from Kentucky, it would be from the southeaster part of the state, in the "hill country" area near Tennessee.

The longer-than-normal comb, which creates a short wrist, is seen on the Alfred Bearden and related rifles of Tennessee, although Bearden-related rifles often have a larger, more pronounced rear spur on the guard and a heavier front post [if brass]. So, after all that, we have another interesting "southern" rifle with somewhat mixed characteristics. If it had a fourth pipe and a 46"+ barrel, I'd favor KY for its home...and it still may be where it was made. But on this particular rifle, I'd probably lean a little more toward TN, in large part due to the long comb line. And I'll always wonder if, by chance, the barrel was originally longer and neatly shortened by a good gunsmith...in part because the rear sight sits well behind the rear pipe, rather than at the rear pipe as in KY, or a little beyond the rear pipe as often seen in TN.  Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 11:55:33 PM by Tanselman »

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2019, 12:22:47 AM »
 Are the nails holding the BP the same as the ones in the Toe Plate?

   Tim

Offline gibster

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2019, 12:52:59 AM »
Tim - The butt plate is held on with screws and there is an iron rivet holding the toe plate to the butt plate.

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2019, 06:14:53 AM »
 :) :)... Gib,... I wonder did the Ranger work in the North Carolina or Virginia sector of the Blue Ridge Parkway,...??? .... if obtained from a local in the '60's I'd say she was most likely made in the area where found,... were several gunstockers in these Carolina Mountains, near where the BRP was built,back in the late 19th-early 20th century... perhaps Gerald (Hillbilly) has an opinion,... this is his country,...  BTW,... I want to look her over in Alabama,... also that great Lawing rifle if you can bring it,... !!!... regards,...  CCF

Offline JTR

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2019, 08:32:01 PM »
:) :)...,... also that great Lawing rifle if you can bring it,... !!!...

Hey Gibster, any pics of the Lawing you can post up?
John Robbins

Offline gibster

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2019, 08:51:03 PM »
John - I posted pictures of the Lawing back in September at CCF's request. Don't know how to post a link to it, but you can do a search for Ambrose Lawing Rifle and it should show up. 

Offline JTR

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2019, 09:00:18 PM »
Okay thanks, I'll look it up!
John Robbins

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 06:30:54 PM »
 ;) ;)... great to see you in Alabama over the week-end, and thanx again for sharing the A.Law. rifle for measurements,... was great to hold and examine this rifle,... was just wondering if anyone was able to provide any new opinion on the maker or area of origin,...?... I will vote NC,... I'm sure from the time period made, that many of these old hog rifles stayed in these mountains,... thanx again,... CCF

Offline gibster

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Re: Another Southern, Iron mounted rifle for discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2020, 06:53:07 PM »
Was a great show indeed. Lots of nice southern rifles to hold and study.
CCF - I enjoyed our discussions and you are quite welcome on the Lawing rifle.  Randal seemed to think that the one was by Trent Harmon while others seemed to think it was a S Glover. The other rifle that I picked up a few weeks ago is still up in the air. Could be SW Virginia, NC, TN or even Kentucky.  In some ways, it would have been great if all the makers signed their work. But if they did, just think of all the discussions that wouldn't be taking place and there wouldn't be much reason to study the different regional characteristics because we would know from looking at the signature who made it and where. Looking forward to the Knoxville show in April. Counting my nickels and dimes.