Variables for point-of-impact of round balls from smoothbores

[tddeangelo]

I have a new-to-me fowler in 16ga that I'm excited to start working with. Since it's flintlock deer season here in PA, and since the gun is jugged and the prior owner has shown it to shoot round balls with good accuracy (sub 3" groups at 50 yards), I'd like to tote it for deer (my 62 rifle will be jealous, but it'll have to find a way to get over that...).

I haven't shot it yet, however the person I received it from has done work with it and the sights are regulated for shot, as he used it primarily for turkeys. Shot patterns are centered up, but balls strike about 8" high for him at 50. Group well, but hit high.

Other than powder charges, what variables could/should I play with? It's important to note that the gun has had a rear sight installed.

One possible solution is to have two different rear sights for it, but I'd sure like to avoid that if possible.

Appreciate any suggestions!

I will be using it with shot for turkeys and squirrels, as well, but man...these 0.648 round balls for it just cry out to be shot into a deer.

[flinchrocket]

Could you just reduce the powder charge a few grains at a time until the ball drops down to the line of sight?

[smylee grouch]

It might be nice, just for your own knowledge to weigh a shot charge and a round ball to see the difference and figure out what your powder charge is too. Your ball and shot velocity might be considerably different dew to the pressure difference, one is patched and the other isn't. If the ball speed is what you think is ok or a bit more a slight drop in powder might work if the accuracy stays ok.

[John SMOthermon]

Try shooting it without a patch...if that doesn’t help, just bend the barrel.

[Maven]

Other than powder charges, what variables could/should I play with? It's important to note that the gun has had a rear sight installed.

Variables include "cheek weld" on the stock; RB diameter; bare ball v. patched RB; if former, overpowder (including greased felt wad) and overshot wads; patch thickness; patch lube (maybe); whether you swab after each shot or not; and/or powder granulation (e.g., FFg v. FFFg).  Did I leave anything out?

[smylee grouch]

Are you holding the gun the same for ball or shot. That alone would make a lot of difference.

[WadePatton]

Until you shoot it you're simply guessing.

IF indeed it hits high for you, you can replace the front sight to make it taller then file to POI.  Or deepen the notch.  Or bend the bbl.

But I wouldn't do anything until I was well settled on the charges that I found best in the gun as I mount and load it.

[Brokennock]

I think several responders missed that the o.p. said that, the gun has a rear sight.

[Brokennock]

Try shooting it without a patch...if that doesn’t help, just bend the barrel.

The gun is already regulated for a turkey load, bending the barrel will mess this up. I think, could be wrong, the goal is to change the load or other variable so as to change the point of impact of a roundball without changing the point of impact of the shot load.

[Brokennock]

I have a new-to-me fowler in 16ga that I'm excited to start working with. Since it's flintlock deer season here in PA, and since the gun is jugged and the prior owner has shown it to shoot round balls with good accuracy (sub 3" groups at 50 yards), I'd like to tote it for deer (my 62 rifle will be jealous, but it'll have to find a way to get over that...).

I haven't shot it yet, however the person I received it from has done work with it and the sights are regulated for shot, as he used it primarily for turkeys. Shot patterns are centered up, but balls strike about 8" high for him at 50. Group well, but hit high.

Other than powder charges, what variables could/should I play with? It's important to note that the gun has had a rear sight installed.

One possible solution is to have two different rear sights for it, but I'd sure like to avoid that if possible.

Appreciate any suggestions!

I will be using it with shot for turkeys and squirrels, as well, but man...these 0.648 round balls for it just cry out to be shot into a deer.

You don't say what lube you are using. While I doubt it will change the p.o.i. 8 inches, line may make a difference. I usually use a beeswax/olive oil blend. When I use something slicker, my groups shoot higher, this is with a smoothrifle with a rear sight. Maybe less lube, or if using a super slick lube, try something thicker/less slick?

[tddeangelo]

Try shooting it without a patch...if that doesn’t help, just bend the barrel.

The gun is already regulated for a turkey load, bending the barrel will mess this up. I think, could be wrong, the goal is to change the load or other variable so as to change the point of impact of a roundball without changing the point of impact of the shot load.

Yep.

I’d like to adjust RB point of impact without changing the shot POI.

I’m headed to the range here shortly to see what it does for me.

[Daryl]

I’d like to adjust RB point of impact without changing the shot POI.

If the shot cloud is centered and balls are striking high, I doubt there is anything you can do to
make the balls and shot hit the POI at the same time. That doesn't make sense - IF you or the
maker are using both sights for shot and ball, the same.
 If the front sight is lowered which will raise the poi of the balls, then the shot will hit lower. If when
shooting the gun like a smoothbore should be shot, with the eye above the breech cheeking), then
 that lost elevation will be returned.

You cannot make the sights work for both shot and ball if holding a level sight - one or the other, unless
 the notch in the rear sight is deep enough, to hold a "fine" sight (blade low in the notch) for ball, & normal
(level) for shot.

[tddeangelo]

Well, after playing with powder and lube options a little, it actually shoots at point of aim at 50 yards with a patched ball. It shows a clear preference for mink oil.

The load I was at is 90gr of 2F with a 0.648 ball, 0.016 patching, and mink oil lube.

Recovered patches are in excellent condition.

It gave a final group off the bench, three consecutive shots, of 2” at point of aim at 50 yards.

Bear fat/beeswax mix did shoot several inches higher, and gave 4”+ groups.

I tried spit patches just for giggles and they shot even higher and looser groups.

Mink oil loads easiest too.

Need to experiment a little more, and then work with shot.

[WadePatton]

Well, after playing with powder and lube options a little, it actually shoots at point of aim at 50 yards with a patched ball. It shows a clear preference for mink oil...
Need to experiment a little more, and then work with shot.

So perhaps it needs no adjusting at all.  Good deal.

[tddeangelo]

Gotta run shot, but I’d shot centers low, I’m ok. I can float the front sight on the notch to raise the center of the pattern.

I’m gonna reshoot with round ball to see if 95gr might hit just a smidge high. That’d be ideal.

Also want to see what it does at 75 yards.... just to look for the edge of effective range. I’m new to this whole smooth bore thingamabobber!

[Hungry Horse]

 Try the bear grease without the bees wax. Bees wax can cause more troubles than it can fix. It’s flash point is way to low for patch lube, except in very small amounts.

  Hungry Horse

[Brokennock]

Try the bear grease without the bees wax. Bees wax can cause more troubles than it can fix. It’s flash point is way to low for patch lube, except in very small amounts.

  Hungry Horse

?? Please explain.