Best practice for shooting smoothbores accurately

[Mattox Forge]

Hello all,

I have an English bullet gun, or smooth "rifle". It is set up just like a so called Park rifle but it is a .54 caliber smoothbore. .534 actually. I have checked both ends of the barrel and found it to be a fairly precise bore. What I would like to know is how do those of you who shoot smoothbores achieve the best accuracy you can, and what level of accuracy can I expect?

Thanks,

Mike

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your gun will like a .500" round ball of pure lead, a .020" cotton denim patch SOAKED with lube (I'd suggest saliva for trail and target, and neatsfoot or mink oil for hunting) and a charge of around 70 - 80 gr. FFg GOEX or equivalent.  You might try a .495" ball and a .025" patch too.

If your gun has sights and is percussion, I'd wager you will get 2" groups at 50 meters, 5" at 100, from a bench.  For 100 m. shooting, increase your charge by 10 gr.  Smoothbores like high velocity for longer ranges.

[Daryl]

Seems, the higher the velocity, the further out the ball gets before it takes on a spin (from it's air passage) and veers off it's intended path.
Taylor's suggestion of balls and patches are good ones, imho.

[Waksupi]

When I set out to learn smoothbore fowlers well, I put my rifles away for a year, and shot competitions with the smooth bores only. I now shoot scores equal to or better than my rifle scores on trailwalks. Go shoot it, and make friends with it.
Something we found with smoothbores vs. rifles, at longer range the smoothbores seemed to be shooting flatter than the rifles. We figured it was velocity loss in the rifle due to the projectile needing to "climb" the inclined plane of the rifling.

[Mattox Forge]

Thanks for the suggestions. I tried it and didnt get as good a result as what you all are suggesting, but I was going the opposite direction with tighter balls, thinner patches, and lower charges. I will try it out as you suggest. I would be very happy with a 5" group at 100 yards.

Mike

[Daryl]

Most guys shooting smoothbores will get 5" or larger, at 50yards rest shooting and be lucky to hit consistently
on a 10" or 12" square at 100.

I've heard of groups better than 3" (benched) at 50yards with a smoothbore, but only saw that once
& that was with the 10 bore 1742 era Brown Bess Taylor built - & it was 5 shots offhand by me - a total
fluke, btw. Anything can happen once in a while.
The ball we were using was a .735" with .030" heavy ticking-like patch.

We have shot 3" groups at 50yards with a 20 bore smoothbore though, & I would say that was quite excellent. Note,
now and then you get a flyer or two in a 5-shot group - go figure. IT happens.

The US military, for their musketry, used turkey targets at 100 yards - yeah - go figure. With the issue paper ctg. in their .69's,
the average for a 5 shots, was one hit.  By increasing the ball size in the paper ctg. to .65" from .64", they doubled their average #
of hits to 2 out of 5 shots - standing shooting.

A rear sight, as well as a blade for a front sight, should improve accuracy somewhat. Smooth rifles, ie: smoothbores with both front and
rear sights, were ordered just so, from stores in the West, from the Eastern gun makers.

I think it is best to think of a smoothbore, whether smooth rifle or with only the front sight, to be 50 to perhaps 70 yard maximum guns.

[Pukka Bundook]

What has been said about velocity is right for the smooth -bore;
The ball has to get to the target fast enough that it doesn't realize it was fired from a smoothbore before it arrives.

[Brokennock]

I get 3 to 4 inch groups off the bench with both my smoothbores. One likes a patched roundball, 20 gauge with a .600 ball and .010 patch. The other likes a loser loading (defying all muzzleloader convention and logic) to the point that I tried no patch and just a thin card over the powder, then a lubed felt wad, .610 ball, then thin card to hold it in.

[tddeangelo]

I just started down the smoothbore path with a 16ga jugged fowler that has a rear sight on it.

My last 3-shot group off the bench was 2.5" at 50 yards.

0.648 ball with a 0.016 patch, mink oil lube, and 90gr 2F Goex. Next range session I want to try 95 and 100gr and run out to 75 and 100 for giggles and see how she does.

[Mattox Forge]

I have also heard of people "knurling" the ball by rolling it under a crosscut file and shooting them patchless. The idea being to get the same effect that dimples do on golf balls, but that sounds like a good way to get curve balls. Has anyone ever heard of that?

Mike

[Maven]

Knurling/dimpling a RB for a smoothbore is a hotly debated topic, with many claiming enhanced accuracy v. many claiming no or even ill effects.  Since it's easy enough to do, why not experiment with it yourself:  dimpled v. "as cast" (or purchased) RB's, all else being equal?  Btw, I've tried it in my trade gun with 2 different diameter RB's and neither shot as accurately as a .598" (Tanner & Lee Precision) - .603" (Lyman) patched RB.

[Bob McBride]

Duelist1954 did a video on making and shooting dimpled balls.

[flinchrocket]

I think the chewed balls did better at 50 yds than he gave them credit for. Except for the one that went left they were vertical stringed,probably because of not pulling the gun into his shoulder. He didn't really have a very good bench technique.IMHO

[Bob McBride]

I agree, but he's an excellent shot, generally speaking. I would have expected some improvement ala golf balls, but the golf shot usually imparts some amount of spin, so it could be that there is no gain to be had. I'll be visiting that test myself soon.

[WadePatton]

And then there's the "bare ball" shooting, of a naked ball, at least .020 under bore, which centers on the gasses escaping past the ball, and does well for some shooters.  No cards or wads only something over the top to hold it on the powder.  Coarser powder is better, and larger charges required for any given velocity.  This all as I remember from recent discussions here, and Hungry Horse being a proponent, or one who gets good results shooting this way.

Smoothies have options. I kinda like this one for the smoothie I've got on the sketchpad in my mind.
 

[WadePatton]

I agree, but he's an excellent shot, generally speaking. I would have expected some improvement ala golf balls, but the golf shot usually imparts some amount of spin, so it could be that there is no gain to be had. I'll be visiting that test myself soon.

YES a golf club imparts much spin on the ball.  Without getting into the details too far, that's how all basic golf shots work and how good golfers manipulate their shots to the wind and various course conditions/shot shapes.  IT's also how a "flyer" shot happens from the rough, when grass blocks the imparting of such spin onto the ball from the clubface. Those shots tend to go long (no backspin-less climbing) with loss of directional control (no backspin or sidespin).  The sand shot--is an exception where the ball takes a tremendous amount of spin yet never touches the clubface, but only a layer of sand--which is good friction material of course, and this makes for exciting shots when you back on into or near the hole...  I used to do that stuff in my early life.

Dimples on a SHOVED projectile have no spin at the get go, and is totally different than a proper golf shot.

[hawkeye]

It's been told to me that a 28 GA is more accurate than larger calibers?
Is there truth in it?

[Kevin]

Thanks to all who are contributing to this discussion.  I am to take possession of a 20 gauge flint fowler in early 2021 being built with a Charles Burton barrel (.620 bore) and will certainly benefit from the experience shared here.

Kevin

[WKevinD]

To get the best accuracy from my smoothbores at anything past 50 yards
 I have someone else shoot them.

Kevin

[Hungry Horse]

Wade has gotten the majority of the procedure correct, which is not the case with most people that say “bare ball don’t work”. Undersized ball is important, big slow burning charge is important, total lack of superfluous junk between powder and ball is important. Something that won’t deflect the ball as it exits the bore like a thin overshot card, or tow, is important.  Less important, but worth trying is dimpling the ball ( I use a paint shaker, or a saws all with a tin can rigged up to shake a few ball and dimple them up). And, dipping the ball in a melted bullet lube will keep the fowling soft, and easier to clean out.

  Hungry Horse

[Maven]

"...total lack of superfluous junk between powder and ball is important. Something that won’t deflect the ball as it exits the bore like a thin overshot card, or tow, is important."  ...HH

HH, If using an undersized RB (.020") as per Wade's post, what should we use to insure it remains atop the powder charge and not roll forward?

[WadePatton]

It's been told to me that a 28 GA is more accurate than larger calibers?
Is there truth in it?

I don't believe in magical bore sizes.  I grew up on cartridges and some of them seemed special, but they are a different beast and operated at different pressures and have some other internal ballistics forces at play.   But I've not heard/read or seen any evidence of a special M/L bore diameter of "inherent accuracy" for rifles or smoothies.  Perhaps I missed the memo.

I think all accuracy is a function of load development and bore properties (including the installation), loading technique, quality of load components, and shooting skills.  And thinking such I recommend choosing the right bore for the work and then setting about making it work well. A top-quality bbl is where you start. 

[WadePatton]

"...total lack of superfluous junk between powder and ball is important. Something that won’t deflect the ball as it exits the bore like a thin overshot card, or tow, is important."  ...HH

HH, If using an undersized RB (.020") as per Wade's post, what should we use to insure it remains atop the powder charge and not roll forward?

Sorry didn't speak to that point, wadding of your choice is how I understand it.  Tow is traditional, but about anything could be used. I might use paper wasps nests as they're easy to come by.   

The wadding that is on top of the ball gets pushed far out of the way by all the gasses coming around the ball, but if you put something under the ball--that object is trapped behind the ball by the bore an can bear against the ball unevenly upon exit--AHA!  Makes perfect sense HH.  I may have missed that concept the first time.

The drawback is running a somewhat larger charge to get the same velocity as you'd get with PRB (if that's what you need for accuracy).  In the bigger bores, this is going to add up if you're short on powder.   Of course you won't be consuming so many cards or wads either and loading is down to three components-same as a PRB, just no starter.

I should order me a bbl soon.      HH what's the bore size(s) you like BB in?

[Hungry Horse]

Wade’s right on some kind of light wadding on top of the ball being best, a tight fitting wad can interrupt the cone of gas that surrounds the ball, and keeps it from making too many contacts with the barrel.
 If I were going to shoot a lot of round ball out of a smoothbore I would probably go with a .24 gauge, or even a .28 gauge. They take less powder to achieve the desired velocity, which means less felt recoil. But, of course the lighter ball loses it stability quicker to, so its really a trade off. But, after all how many long shots are you going to take with a smooth bore?

  Hungry Horse

[Maven]

Thanks for the explanation, HH!